• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
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  • Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a 20% discount on Inform Racing.
    Simply enter the coupon code ukbettingform when subscribing here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Inform Racing so help is always available if needed.
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    AR
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting


    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
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    AR

UK All Weather Speed Ratings Template

Outlander

Gelding
Maybe the above is a more recent list of speed pars and seems to fit ok with the ratings returned on the template(small sample I know)
 

David Punshon

Yearling
David Punshon David Punshon if I was correct in what you were asking I changed the MAX OR to your specification and adapted the sheet , I don't think it made any significant difference to the returned ratings at all, the last 3 columns that calculate performance v expectation were rendered useless as just the horses that had 0 MAX OR were obviously the highest ranked so I deleted these now redundant columns.
Personally I don't think this change added any value to the template.
Thanks Outlander I was just thinking out load
 

David Punshon

Yearling
David Punshon David Punshon if I was correct in what you were asking I changed the MAX OR to your specification and adapted the sheet , I don't think it made any significant difference to the returned ratings at all, the last 3 columns that calculate performance v expectation were rendered useless as just the horses that had 0 MAX OR were obviously the highest ranked so I deleted these now redundant columns.
Personally I don't think this change added any value to the template.
My main reason for asking was basically to try if possible and assess some sort of performance rating for Maiden races where in say a horse with no rating beats runners with ratings of say 80, 78 etc
 

Outlander

Gelding
My main reason for asking was basically to try if possible and assess some sort of performance rating for Maiden races where in say a horse with no rating beats runners with ratings of say 80, 78 etc
Not sure if it would be helpful in establishing a performance rating in this way.
To be honest on the more complicated sheet I use that require some manual input , I have recently been attempting to calculate a performance rating that takes elements of speed, class, weight etc to try and produce as accurately as possible a BHA style handicap performance figure to compare with the OR in the next race, I have been happy with it, the calculations seem to be useful.
But being completely honest I still don't think I have the standard times as accurate as I need them for the flat so my flat ratings still a work in progress until i'm satisfied.
I am fairly excited about where I am with my NH ratings and been testing against old cards after some success at Cheltenham this year, they seem to top rank a lot of Cheltenham handicap winners over the last few years, but i'm not using standard times for NH I use quadratic equations.
At this point i'm light years ahead with my NH ratings compared to flat and unfortunately use of quadratic equations doesn't work at all with flat racing.
If I get a performance rating calculation i'm 100% happy with I will add them to the template, but at the moment that is a work in progress.
 

David Punshon

Yearling
Not sure if it would be helpful in establishing a performance rating in this way.
To be honest on the more complicated sheet I use that require some manual input , I have recently been attempting to calculate a performance rating that takes elements of speed, class, weight etc to try and produce as accurately as possible a BHA style handicap performance figure to compare with the OR in the next race, I have been happy with it, the calculations seem to be useful.
But being completely honest I still don't think I have the standard times as accurate as I need them for the flat so my flat ratings still a work in progress until i'm satisfied.
I am fairly excited about where I am with my NH ratings and been testing against old cards after some success at Cheltenham this year, they seem to top rank a lot of Cheltenham handicap winners over the last few years, but i'm not using standard times for NH I use quadratic equations.
At this point i'm light years ahead with my NH ratings compared to flat and unfortunately use of quadratic equations doesn't work at all with flat racing.
If I get a performance rating calculation i'm 100% happy with I will add them to the template, but at the moment that is a work in progress.
I am at the same point as yourself in that I am trying to produce my own BHA "STYLE" performance figure for the lightly raced runners but it is very tough/if at all possible to fully automate these figures. I am trying to produce a base value with manual adjustments for visual/pace etc
 

Outlander

Gelding
I am at the same point as yourself in that I am trying to produce my own BHA "STYLE" performance figure for the lightly raced runners but it is very tough/if at all possible to fully automate these figures. I am trying to produce a base value with manual adjustments for visual/pace etc
Yes the templates I post on this thread are very basic and for really for beginners to get an idea how you could produce ratings in seconds and could input your own standards to make them unique to you.
The type of thing I wish I had 20 years ago instead of spending hours with a calculator and notepad.
 

David Punshon

Yearling
Your excel skills are vastly superior to what I have been using, the problem being I believe we want to automate everything when in reality there are just certain elements that can't
 

Outlander

Gelding
Your excel skills are vastly superior to what I have been using, the problem being I believe we want to automate everything when in reality there are just certain elements that can't
I'm pretty sure you can automate everything to a least the standard of the BHA handicappers, that is saying a lot because I believe the BHA to be superior to RPR or Timeform. But people out there are already automating to an accuracy level we can only dream of, this week I looked at the Timeform database because it is open access, I know for certain I can produce speed figures automatically superior to their NH timefigures.
I'm sure their flat ratings and flat speed figures are to a high enough level and I wouldn't claim I could do any better atm, I don't know to be honest. But I would rather do it myself than pay £70 a month.
 

David Punshon

Yearling
Not sure if it would be helpful in establishing a performance rating in this way.
To be honest on the more complicated sheet I use that require some manual input , I have recently been attempting to calculate a performance rating that takes elements of speed, class, weight etc to try and produce as accurately as possible a BHA style handicap performance figure to compare with the OR in the next race, I have been happy with it, the calculations seem to be useful.
But being completely honest I still don't think I have the standard times as accurate as I need them for the flat so my flat ratings still a work in progress until i'm satisfied.
I am fairly excited about where I am with my NH ratings and been testing against old cards after some success at Cheltenham this year, they seem to top rank a lot of Cheltenham handicap winners over the last few years, but i'm not using standard times for NH I use quadratic equations.
At this point i'm light years ahead with my NH ratings compared to flat and unfortunately use of quadratic equations doesn't work at all with flat racing.
If I get a performance rating calculation i'm 100% happy with I will add them to the template, but at the moment that is a work in progress.
In your performance rating do you take in to account Intent/Win Expectation
 

David Punshon

Yearling
I just use market expectation as a guide to the last time out performance. If a horse was expected to run to its rating or not especially early season or break return can explain poor performance figure
 

SteveT

Gelding
So i have been messing around with outlanders excellent template and added an advanced filter, i did originally make it with a user form but for some reason part of it is not working properly now so got to go over it all again but i also made this version with the advanced filter it may be useful and i did ask his permission first as it his work all i have done is create the advanced filter.
 

Attachments

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Cashelman

Filly
So i have been messing around with outlanders excellent template and added an advanced filter, i did originally make it with a user form but for some reason part of it is not working properly now so got to go over it all again but i also made this version with the advanced filter it may be useful and i did ask his permission first as it his work all i have done is create the advanced filter.
Pardon my ignorance but what does the advanced filter provide
 
So i have been messing around with outlanders excellent template and added an advanced filter, i did originally make it with a user form but for some reason part of it is not working properly now so got to go over it all again but i also made this version with the advanced filter it may be useful and i did ask his permission first as it his work all i have done is create the advanced filter.
Can i make a suggestion to your spradsheet, you might consider adding time to column BD as part of the keys, so that it will rank each horse per race, rather than ranking each horse per day
 

Outlander

Gelding
Can i make a suggestion to your spradsheet, you might consider adding time to column BD as part of the keys, so that it will rank each horse per race, rather than ranking each horse per day
If you rank each horse by race whats the point that's basically the same as the finishing order for that race, it means very little. The whole point of the spreadsheet is to rate a whole meeting for speed and the ranking are just a way of highlighting which horse ran fastest compared to expectation at the meeting. Of course when I posted it up I said you could add in your own personal standard times or change calculations if you didn't like mine, you would make the change you mention and tailor it to suit your own ideas if you wished.
 

Cashelman

Filly
Morning O Outlander I see on your spreadsheet for Bellewstown there was a distance just short of a mile so it has not picked up as standard time do you have a standard time for this distance
 

Outlander

Gelding
Morning O Outlander I see on your spreadsheet for Bellewstown there was a distance just short of a mile so it has not picked up as standard time do you have a standard time for this distance
Hi Cashelman Cashelman this is a problem you will encounter a lot at the likes of Bellewstown , they change the distances constantly , the standard is for 1760 yds but the race yesterday was 1736 yds, what you do is manually change the yards in the HRB yard column to 1760 and then in the next column headed rail move input -24.
The sheet will then calculate everything as if it was a mile race with a 24 yards allowance for a rail move.
The 1760 is a default distance because otherwise you would need a standard time for virtually every yard at Bellewstown and Donpatrick and some other Irish gaffs .
 
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