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Hong Kong Speed Figures

La Cressonnière said:
HV 04/06/2025
R3R4R5R9
VULCANUSMIDORI FUJIGOLDEN DARCIHORSEPOWER
FORTUNE WHISKEYTO INFINITYBIENVENUEHARMONY N BLESSED
BEAUTY THUNDERDRACOLOVING VIBESKAHOLO ANGEL
NEBRASKANBOWSERCOLOURFUL KING
STELLAR EXPRESS
Click to expand...
Couple of good winners and trip in the last La Cressonnière La Cressonnière

La Cressonnière said:
"There's a small issue in the database. For instance, take race RNO 6096 — just picking at random, the horse GOLDEN RISE.
FT : OK - Sections : OK - There's a mistake in the 200m splits towards the end of the race.
GOLDEN RISE FT 69.76 S1 24.59 - S2 22.05 - S3 23.12 => Correct
Split last 4 f : 11.28 11.28 11.46 11.54 => False should be :10.93 11.12 11.29 11.83
Click to expand...
I had a look at this and these are the figures I have on my sheets. They seem correct
1749149982652.png
These are the sectionals you have for the last 4 200m spreads on a different day.
1749150216639.png

Have you any other examples La Cressonnière La Cressonnière or maybe a mismatch? I can send my sheet for the whole season if you would like otr this one has these 2 race son plus the meeting on Wednesday.

The times on Wednesday are a little random, heavy rain early on changed from Good to Good to yielding after race 1 but seems some very slow races - Golden Darcy and Joy Of Spring, but that was followed by an exceptional fast time by Keefy and the 2nd Highland Rahy as they pulled away.

Also the card for Sunday.
 

Attachments

  • HK Results25.xlsx
    144.9 KB · Views: 6
  • 250608.xlsx
    178.5 KB · Views: 1
La Cressonnière said:
"There's a small issue in the database. For instance, take race RNO 6096 — just picking at random, the horse GOLDEN RISE.
FT : OK - Sections : OK - There's a mistake in the 200m splits towards the end of the race.
GOLDEN RISE FT 69.76 S1 24.59 - S2 22.05 - S3 23.12 => Correct
Split last 4 f : 11.28 11.28 11.46 11.54 => False should be :10.93 11.12 11.29 11.83
Click to expand...
Problem comes from me ; i did not use a good node in my system i will have a lot to do 😭
 
Hi The Hare The Hare
Due to a misconfiguration, many of the times in my sections are incorrect. To save time, do you have the Excel file (the same one you post on the website after each meeting) but with all the races of the season grouped together — that is, from September 2024 to June 2025?
Thanks
 
SHA TIN 08/06/2025
R4R6R8R10
CARRYON SMILINGMAX QUERISING FROM ASHESANOTHER ZONDA
MATSU VICTORRIDING TOGETHERTHE ABSOLUTEMODULECONSTRUCTION
PEARL OF PANG'STOP PEAKALL ROUND WINNERLITTLE PARADISE
CALIFORNIA SUNSWEET BRIARNUCLEOZORAERIS NOVA
TIMES TABLEENJOY GOLFBRILLIANT EXPRESSAHREN
 
La Cressonnière said:
Hi The Hare The Hare
Due to a misconfiguration, many of the times in my sections are incorrect. To save time, do you have the Excel file (the same one you post on the website after each meeting) but with all the races of the season grouped together — that is, from September 2024 to June 2025?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Hello La Cressonnière La Cressonnière

I have put together the results for the season. Thought it would be easy but this may explain the issue you had. The sectionals for the final 200m involve a little splitting from each other after download. This is not a problem but when i did some checking to see they are correct the formula returns 0. I had a look at getting Excel to realise they are numbers and the only way I could get it to work was using the SUBSTITUTE command in Excel and then copying through all the data. Then had to copy and paste the results as values. Maybe the last half of the results the 200m sectionals were not recognised. This could have been the problem you had?

I believe this information is all correct and I will check this before posting each meeting in future. Also found that for race 199 I had the sectionals for the disqualified first and second transposed. This is corrected here.

Let me know if there are any further problems.

Today's results will be added tomorrow.

Kevin
 

Attachments

  • Results2425.xlsx
    2 MB · Views: 6
The Hare said:
Hello La Cressonnière La Cressonnière

I have put together the results for the season. Thought it would be easy but this may explain the issue you had. The sectionals for the final 200m involve a little splitting from each other after download. This is not a problem but when i did some checking to see they are correct the formula returns 0. I had a look at getting Excel to realise they are numbers and the only way I could get it to work was using the SUBSTITUTE command in Excel and then copying through all the data. Then had to copy and paste the results as values. Maybe the last half of the results the 200m sectionals were not recognised. This could have been the problem you had?

I believe this information is all correct and I will check this before posting each meeting in future. Also found that for race 199 I had the sectionals for the disqualified first and second transposed. This is corrected here.

Let me know if there are any further problems.

Today's results will be added tomorrow.

Kevin
Click to expand...
The Hare The Hare O Outlander

Great to see you guys still battering away at Hong Kong
The mob i am working for now have been testing the HK waters for a couple of years and dipping in on the World Pool days and they are very serious about stepping up, (we are in France, UK/IRE, US, Canada & also cover the bigger Scandinavian Harness Racing meetings which is massive) - technically i don't work that area as it is not our division/location (the HK team also work Aus/NZ) but a couple of us managed to snag a trip to Sha-Tin with the main HK boys a couple of months ago as guests of the HK Jockey Club. If you ever get the chance to go - grab it - amazing set up - even better than it looks from the feed.
I seen on our data feed that that there are incremental 200m sectionals for HK - are you guys scraping or whatever? - and are you using the 200m sectionals as well?
btw has it ever been explained to you how HK derive their sections ? - it's a different method from TPD/CourseTrack (RTV/RaceIQ)
 
Last edited:
ARAZI91 said:
The Hare The Hare O Outlander

Great to see you guys still battering away at Hong Kong
The mob i am working for now have been testing the HK waters for a couple of years and dipping in on the World Pool days and they are very serious about stepping up, we are in France, UK/IRE, US, Canada & also cover the bigger Scandinavian Harness Racing meetings which is massive - technically i don't work that area as it is not our division/location (the HK team also work Aus/NZ) but a couple of us managed to snag a trip to Sha-Tin with the main HK boys a couple of months ago as guests of the HK Jockey Club. If you ever get the chance to go - grab it - amazing set up - even better than it looks from the feed.
I seen on our data feed that that there are incremental 200m sectionals for HK - are you guys scraping or whatever? - and are you using the 200m sectionals as well?
btw has it ever been explained to you how HK derive their sections ? - it's a different method from TPD/CourseTrack (RTV/RaceIQ)
Click to expand...
ARAZI91 ARAZI91 , yeah still trying. Using the data The Hare The Hare posts on here , his data has the 200m splits but I haven’t included them in my database yet, should do, maybe in the off season.
Have ability ratings, trial ratings, last 800m , last 400m ratings, speed ratings, you name it, I have them all in speed points and HK ratings scale, think I’m confusing myself at this point.
The Hare The Hare also has all these ratings sets, his data is excellent.
I know they use something like lengths behind at section points to calculate section times, I know they make sure the sections are measured correctly on each track configuration.
Don’t think I will be heading to Sha Tin anytime soon, well out of my price range after I finished the in-running after 20 odd years and now unemployable in the real world !
 
The Hare said:
Hello La Cressonnière La Cressonnière

I have put together the results for the season. Thought it would be easy but this may explain the issue you had. The sectionals for the final 200m involve a little splitting from each other after download. This is not a problem but when i did some checking to see they are correct the formula returns 0. I had a look at getting Excel to realise they are numbers and the only way I could get it to work was using the SUBSTITUTE command in Excel and then copying through all the data. Then had to copy and paste the results as values. Maybe the last half of the results the 200m sectionals were not recognised. This could have been the problem you had?

I believe this information is all correct and I will check this before posting each meeting in future. Also found that for race 199 I had the sectionals for the disqualified first and second transposed. This is corrected here.

Let me know if there are any further problems.

Today's results will be added tomorrow.

Kevin
Click to expand...
The problem came from the fact that the 200-meter sections in the database contained 'Non-Printing characters' until today. So I reprocessed the data to transform them, but unfortunately I didn’t implement a Loop Start and Loop End, which meant that once transformed, the data didn’t necessarily align with the correct rows: over 1,200 errors...
 
ARAZI91 said:
The Hare The Hare O Outlander

Great to see you guys still battering away at Hong Kong
The mob i am working for now have been testing the HK waters for a couple of years and dipping in on the World Pool days and they are very serious about stepping up, (we are in France, UK/IRE, US, Canada & also cover the bigger Scandinavian Harness Racing meetings which is massive) - technically i don't work that area as it is not our division/location (the HK team also work Aus/NZ) but a couple of us managed to snag a trip to Sha-Tin with the main HK boys a couple of months ago as guests of the HK Jockey Club. If you ever get the chance to go - grab it - amazing set up - even better than it looks from the feed.
I seen on our data feed that that there are incremental 200m sectionals for HK - are you guys scraping or whatever? - and are you using the 200m sectionals as well?
btw has it ever been explained to you how HK derive their sections ? - it's a different method from TPD/CourseTrack (RTV/RaceIQ)
Click to expand...
Hello ARAZI91 ARAZI91 good to see you back.

As mentioned by O Outlander we are both still trying many ratings sets. I messed around with my form ratings inthe summer and tried adjusting beaten lengths or time based on the going which has made the ratings worse! Mainly just to reduce the beaten length on softer ground, not much of that in Hong Kong. But the bigger difference is in the distances on the all weather compared t othe turf. But it hasn't improved my method!

I tried some non weighted form ratings and they are now my best predictor but using the same reduced distances method just not including weights, so i need to calculate a better weight adjustment.

I drew up some speed ratings imilar to those you mentioned from your Australian friend and they have performed quite well, adjusted the weights on those with differing figures for the turf and all weather and they are a slight improvement on the non weighted ones.

As O Outlander mentions also secrtional ratings, not really looked at how to implement them into the final ratings so just at the minute the last 400m and 800m sectionals, gain we have the 200m sectionals for these but haven't used those yet. I know that you put up a sectional type method based upon the positions at each split which was something I intended to look at but as yet haven't!

I collect the data from the results on the HK jockey club site and the time information from there as well. I really need to learn to scrape the data but have a few macros that split the information into the format I use which isn't too slow.

I have read something about the HK sectional method I think but happy to read again if you have any information on it.

I was interested yesterday in the 2nd and 3rd 200m splits for Parent's Love in the second 1000m race. Since the introduction of the 200m splits these are the fastest 2nd and 3rd sectional times. Obviously takes a lot out of them that sub 10 second 200m. In Parents Love 20 races the only other time it beat 10 seconds was it's first run. Over a year since anything went this fast and maybe a good sign for the future as the horse strengthens up?

1749478661370.png
 
HV 10/06/2025
R4R5R7R8R9
KNOW AT HEARTFOREVER GLORIOUSNEW POWERSURE JOYFULNORDIC DRAGON
AUTUMN DELIGHTSTERLING WONGCHOYGALAXY WITNESSSAMARKANDHAYDAY
GAMEPLAYER ELITECAPITAL LEGENDFORTUNE WHISKEYSOVEREIGN FUND
LEGEND STARGLORIOUS JOURNEYPRIME MORTARKING MILES
LOOKING BRIGHT
 
The Hare said:
Hello ARAZI91 ARAZI91 good to see you back.

As mentioned by O Outlander we are both still trying many ratings sets. I messed around with my form ratings inthe summer and tried adjusting beaten lengths or time based on the going which has made the ratings worse! Mainly just to reduce the beaten length on softer ground, not much of that in Hong Kong. But the bigger difference is in the distances on the all weather compared t othe turf. But it hasn't improved my method!

I tried some non weighted form ratings and they are now my best predictor but using the same reduced distances method just not including weights, so i need to calculate a better weight adjustment.

I drew up some speed ratings imilar to those you mentioned from your Australian friend and they have performed quite well, adjusted the weights on those with differing figures for the turf and all weather and they are a slight improvement on the non weighted ones.

As O Outlander mentions also secrtional ratings, not really looked at how to implement them into the final ratings so just at the minute the last 400m and 800m sectionals, gain we have the 200m sectionals for these but haven't used those yet. I know that you put up a sectional type method based upon the positions at each split which was something I intended to look at but as yet haven't!

I collect the data from the results on the HK jockey club site and the time information from there as well. I really need to learn to scrape the data but have a few macros that split the information into the format I use which isn't too slow.

I have read something about the HK sectional method I think but happy to read again if you have any information on it.

I was interested yesterday in the 2nd and 3rd 200m splits for Parent's Love in the second 1000m race. Since the introduction of the 200m splits these are the fastest 2nd and 3rd sectional times. Obviously takes a lot out of them that sub 10 second 200m. In Parents Love 20 races the only other time it beat 10 seconds was it's first run. Over a year since anything went this fast and maybe a good sign for the future as the horse strengthens up?

View attachment 157355
Click to expand...
Sorry The Hare The Hare - missed this or would have responded sooner - great stuff on the figures and data O Outlander will solve the "how to" implement sectionals - if i remember right, think mine if to do with "positional" would have been in the realm of quickly measuring bias such as stall to first section and then pos changes in a race , also stall to finpos, simple really - positional deltas ^2 (eg. 1-3)^2 , then (sqrt/ sum of squares) then normalised for FS - higher the racefig = More bias / changes in a race. Quickie method to highlight races for deeper study. I know our HK team are looking at PIR's in relation to sectionals - that example race of PL, we have found some timing errors at that distance. Have you or O Outlander noticed anything suspect.
Sectionals in HK are derived differently than elsewhere although the method is probably less prone to error than GPS and very similar to the method that the USA used for years - beam timing - where a leader crosses the beam and only that time is captured and all preceding times of those in behind are derived from leaders time using a fixed length conversion of margins which are in 0.25 increments - you'll find that the "constant" is always 0.16 no matter the speed or distance whereas in GPS the constant is variable - heard that HK can't go down GPS route due to mobile phone interference - was tried long ago with Trakus and all over the place so method is a best-fit job but even though UK providers have cleaned up their act in terms of accuracy, there are still rogue races slipping through - imagine HK's method whilst not 100% accurate is more robust and consistent.
Good to see your still keeping the Snooker Ratings going, caught some of this year's WC - was rooting for Mad Ronnie but refreshing to see Zhao come up like that. Impressive! - Thought Judd peaked too early as was playing some majestic stuff - every time he was in he just looked comfortable for a ton+
 
Last edited:
SHA TIN 14/06/2025
It will be a quiet day. In France, there are bets only on the first 4 races. I’m keeping Race 1, which is a Class 5 with poor-quality horses, and Race 4, which is interesting but has changes in distance and surface. On top of that, I’m not comfortable with my GA on the AWT.
R1R2
GOLD TACKMAGNIAC
BEAUTIFUL WINPATCH OF WATCH
SMASHING EXPRESSFUN N FUN TOGETHER
SUPREME WINNERHINOKAMI KAGURA
PERFECT PEACHROBOT KNIGHT
 
ARAZI91 said:
Sorry The Hare The Hare - missed this or would have responded sooner - great stuff on the figures and data O Outlander will solve the "how to" implement sectionals - if i remember right, think mine if to do with "positional" would have been in the realm of quickly measuring bias such as stall to first section and then pos changes in a race , also stall to finpos, simple really - positional deltas ^2 (eg. 1-3)^2 , then (sqrt/ sum of squares) then normalised for FS - higher the racefig = More bias / changes in a race. Quickie method to highlight races for deeper study. I know our HK team are looking at PIR's in relation to sectionals - that example race of PL, we have found some timing errors at that distance. Have you or O Outlander noticed anything suspect.
Sectionals in HK are derived differently than elsewhere although the method is probably less prone to error than GPS and very similar to the method that the USA used for years - beam timing - where a leader crosses the beam and only that time is captured and all preceding times of those in behind are derived from leaders time using a fixed length conversion of margins which are in 0.25 increments - you'll find that the "constant" is always 0.16 no matter the speed or distance whereas in GPS the constant is variable - heard that HK can't go down GPS route due to mobile phone interference - was tried long ago with Trakus and all over the place so method is a best-fit job but even though UK providers have cleaned up their act in terms of accuracy, there are still rogue races slipping through - imagine HK's method whilst not 100% accurate is more robust and consistent.
Good to see your still keeping the Snooker Ratings going, caught some of this year's WC - was rooting for Mad Ronnie but refreshing to see Zhao come up like that. Impressive! - Thought Judd peaked too early as was playing some majestic stuff - every time he was in he just looked comfortable for a ton+
Click to expand...
Many thanks ARAZI91 ARAZI91 . Yes your method of looking at sectionals was as you describe above. I will have a look this week with a rest meeting, should have kept the positions at each section but haven't, data collection error! Will work them manually.

I shall look at the various sectionals for each distance and see what I come up with for those 1000m races, the 2nd sectional does seem quick at just glancing.

The snooker as you say, Trump peaked too quickly, probably thought he couldn't lose to Williams after all the hype about his eyesight.
 
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