Do you think sports betting is a useless game?

[tacker]

How poor or otherwise you are T tacker is your business alone, I certainly see someone who loves the game and put up plenty of shrewd picks, I would bet on you to do better than myself , no problem.
It’s not a case of how amazing we are at punting, I’ve been open loads of times on here that I’m useless , but if you take one price they don’t like or go on a winning run you will be stopped. They are running no lose models and don’t want any customers their algorithms suggest can potentially beat them. They are all doing it. If the algorithms say you might be a winner then you are stopped and directed to their casinos.

So are we saying if you lose money to them but once in a while manage to take advantage of an early price their algorithms will identify you for the chop ? That makes no sense to me, no wonder denise wants out.
I spend many hours in casinos watching football & racing, occasionally having to suffer that scalextric shite and listen to lots of young lads talking about their bets, high fiving each other rather loudly, point being they have these accounts and perhaps they're losers i wouldn't know but clearly there are millions of accounts out there doing what they enjoy, why would any business want to stop trading with them ?
I appear to be a lone voice on here that doesn't have a problem with the bookies, does that sound realistic to you O Outlander ?

 

[Outlander]

So are we saying if you lose money to them but once in a while manage to take advantage of an early price their algorithms will identify you for the chop ? That makes no sense to me, no wonder denise wants out.
I spend many hours in casinos watching football & racing, occasionally having to suffer that scalextric shite and listen to lots of young lads talking about their bets, high fiving each other rather loudly, point being they have these accounts and perhaps they're losers i wouldn't know but clearly there are millions of accounts out there doing what they enjoy, why would any business want to stop trading with them ?
I appear to be a lone voice on here that doesn't have a problem with the bookies, does that sound realistic to you O Outlander ?

If they have been identified as losers, massive percentage of punters are, they they won’t be bothered unless all of a sudden they start betting differently, the algorithms know what to look for and as soon as the wrong type of punter is identified it’s almost instant. I have had 2 accounts stopped after 3 bets on the first day, one I was chasing like a mug and the 3rd bet got me £25 in profit

 

[pawras]

If they have been identified as losers, massive percentage of punters are, they they won’t be bothered unless all of a sudden they start betting differently, the algorithms know what to look for and as soon as the wrong type of punter is identified it’s almost instant. I have had 2 accounts stopped after 3 bets on the first day, one I was chasing like a mug and the 3rd bet got me £25 in profit

The only time I've had anything like that was Boylesports, but it's years since I tried to open a new acc.

Last one was Geoff Banks 2 years ago but he wanted all my info up front, which I suppose is better than waiting until I wanted to be paid out, I declined his request.
He was on twatter saying his firm didn't do all that stuff etc etc, I contradicted him and provided posted screenshots and got blocked lol.
I'm not on twatter now cos of a comment I made about nonces

 

[tacker]

If they have been identified as losers, massive percentage of punters are, they they won’t be bothered unless all of a sudden they start betting differently, the algorithms know what to look for and as soon as the wrong type of punter is identified it’s almost instant. I have had 2 accounts stopped after 3 bets on the first day, one I was chasing like a mug and the 3rd bet got me £25 in profit

Do bookies share information ?

 

[tacker]

A few years ago an idea came into my head but feared posting in case people thought i was daft, that ship has long sailed so i'll say it now.
Why don't we have a punters bookies ? Same principle behind BANK OF DAVE.

Burnley Savings and Loans (the real finance company behind the Bank of Dave story)

When the big banks turned their backs on hard-working people, Dave Fishwick and his team founded Burnley Savings and Loans with one radical idea: finance should be fair, and every penny of profit should go to good causes.

burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk

I could suggest many reasons why it might not work but also reasons why it would be fine.

 

[Outlander]

Do bookies share information ?

Maybe T tacker that is a theory I had, although I haven’t been a good punter since the 90s, I was a full time in-running punter on the exchanges, maybe if the exchanges told them how much I had won i might be on a blacklist.

 

[Outlander]

A few years ago an idea came into my head but feared posting in case people thought i was daft, that ship has long sailed so i'll say it now.
Why don't we have a punters bookies ? Same principle behind BANK OF DAVE.

Burnley Savings and Loans (the real finance company behind the Bank of Dave story)

When the big banks turned their backs on hard-working people, Dave Fishwick and his team founded Burnley Savings and Loans with one radical idea: finance should be fair, and every penny of profit should go to good causes.

burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk

I could suggest many reasons why it might not work but also reasons why it would be fine.

Isn’t that what betfair was supposed to be.

 

[markfinn]

If they have been identified as losers, massive percentage of punters are, they they won’t be bothered unless all of a sudden they start betting differently, the algorithms know what to look for and as soon as the wrong type of punter is identified it’s almost instant. I have had 2 accounts stopped after 3 bets on the first day, one I was chasing like a mug and the 3rd bet got me £25 in profit

I don’t know about a lone voice there are only ? A dozen or so regular posters half of which probably don’t talk about this problem of the others some are really against the bookies some are indifferent and just get on with it - personally I don’t hate them , without them there is no sport so we need them to enable or enjoyment - as private business’s they currently have the right to restrict or allow customers to bet with them - I don’t care if the likes of Boylsport and rest don’t want my custom , but it does or did stick in the craw when the market leaders Lads and Coral even with their often restrictive odds refuse to even speak to you. We can all get on somewhere just work with what you got is my motto.

 

[tacker]

Isn’t that what betfair was supposed to be.

I'm no expert on this subject but i would argue betfair was never that.

 

[Outlander]

I don’t know about a lone voice there are only ? A dozen or so regular posters half of which probably don’t talk about this problem of the others some are really against the bookies some are indifferent and just get on with it - personally I don’t hate them , without them there is no sport so we need them to enable or enjoyment - as private business’s they currently have the right to restrict or allow customers to bet with them - I don’t care if the likes of Boylsport and rest don’t want my custom , but it does or did stick in the craw when the market leaders Lads and Coral even with their often restrictive odds refuse to even speak to you. We can all get on somewhere just work with what you got is my motto.

The problem is though people are having to use other peoples accounts, people are selling losing accounts, people are going through all the bookies multiple times in all their families names , people are going to the black market, people are having to give bookmakers personal financial information just to get a bet on, punters like Paul Merson are being offered £10,000 free bets to get him started again when he’s at rock bottom from addiction, criminals who have stole money from their employers are allowed to gamble £100,000s without question, criminals are allowed to launder drug money, extra shops were opened all over the country for them to do this on FOBTs. They pay £millions in gambling commission fines as an acceptable cost of running such filthy operations. Genuine punters who threaten to win have their custom turned away disenfranchised from Horse Racing losing them valuable customers they find hard to replace.
For all these reasons and more I DO hate the bookies and can’t wait for them to collapse, it’s happening, it will happen, they will be gone. Racing has every chance of going down with them, that’s a shame but they never ever spoke out for the punter, only ever worrying about the needs of the scum bookies and begging them for scraps.
Bookmakers are a blight on society I see them somewhere between the Wonga payday loans and child grooming gangs on the scum scale.
I have wrote my opinions dozens of times on here of the bookies, I have now made a pact with myself for blood pressure reasons not to mention my opinions of bookmakers ever again, don’t tempt me back in T tacker. It’s like a red rag to a bull.

 

[Outlander]

I'm no expert on this subject but i would argue betfair was never that.

Well it was peer to peer , winners welcome was the motto, the motto itself encouraging punters who were being turned away from traditional bookies. It was a utopia for punters the greatest platform on Earth until they got greedy.
They know they lost all their customers from greed and ruined the liquidity forever that’s why they have changed the premium charge rules, but too little too late.
It was absolutely unbelievable before the greed. Like punters heaven.

 

[pawras]

Isn’t that what betfair was supposed to be.

As soon as you have shareholders who view it purely as money making machine, which is understandable unless you a genuine interest in racing, then it would be run according to those principles i.e. betfair pre and post becoming a plc

 

[markfinn]

What is surprising to me is that with all these computer geniuses around there have not been any major incursions or new start ups along the line of Betfair into the betting market - the profits are eye watering if you can get it right - if I were leaving university with the computer skills I would deffo be considering starting up some kind of pier to pier exchange

 

[pawras]

What is surprising to me is that with all these computer geniuses around there have not been any major incursions or new start ups along the line of Betfair into the betting market - the profits are eye watering if you can get it right - if I were leaving university with the computer skills I would deffo be considering starting up some kind of pier to pier exchange

you need a certain amount of capital investment to even start small, if I was single with no responsibilities I would explore doing that.

if I was running the tote I'd create an exchange part or even merge the two concepts together where the exchange sp essentially becomes the tote return.

have take outs clearly defined and published

with a clearly defined take out and no shareholders to answer to because it would be essentially run for the benefit of the sport, if run properly the tote wouldn't need a monopoly cos it would hammer the rest so much anyway and make life very uncomfortable for them

 

[markfinn]

The problem is though people are having to use other peoples accounts, people are selling losing accounts, people are going through all the bookies multiple times in all their families names , people are going to the black market, people are having to give bookmakers personal financial information just to get a bet on, punters like Paul Merson are being offered £10,000 free bets to get him started again when he’s at rock bottom from addiction, criminals who have stole money from their employers are allowed to gamble £100,000s without question, criminals are allowed to launder drug money, extra shops were opened all over the country for them to do this on FOBTs. They pay £millions in gambling commission fines as an acceptable cost of running such filthy operations. Genuine punters who threaten to win have their custom turned away disenfranchised from Horse Racing losing them valuable customers they find hard to replace.
For all these reasons and more I DO hate the bookies and can’t wait for them to collapse, it’s happening, it will happen, they will be gone. Racing has every chance of going down with them, that’s a shame but they never ever spoke out for the punter, only ever worrying about the needs of the scum bookies and begging them for scraps.
Bookmakers are a blight on society I see them somewhere between the Wonga payday loans and child grooming gangs on the scum scale.
I have wrote my opinions dozens of times on here of the bookies, I have now made a pact with myself for blood pressure reasons not to mention my opinions of bookmakers ever again, don’t tempt me back in T tacker. It’s like a red rag to a bull.

You touch on some very valid points, there is no doubt dodgy practices and bad actors in these business’s - governments fault again for acting to protect the consumer - the FOTB machines, I am convinced they were seen as grabbing back some tax money that would have otherwise escaped back to ? The profit margin in drugs is huge and tax free , while policing it correctly would prove ruinous. There must be huge amounts of money laundered through gambling and as usual it is the little guys that are clamped down upon whist the major players move into barber shops , taxis , nail bars etc….any place where cash is king.

 

[markfinn]

you need a certain amount of capital investment to even start small, if I was single with no responsibilities I would explore doing that.

if I was running the tote I'd create an exchange part or even merge the two concepts together where the exchange sp essentially becomes the tote return.

have take outs clearly defined and published

with clearly defined take out and no shareholders to answer to because it would be essentially run for the benefit of the sport, if run properly the tote wouldn't need a monopoly cos it would hammer the rest so much anyway and make life very uncomfortable for them

There is plenty of ready capital about for the right business.

 

[Outlander]

Exchanges both passed hands many time, not once did Racing put its hat on the ring and take control of its own destiny, they could basically price others out of using their data or threaten them to cease and desist like the HKJC did with Betfair and have it all for themselves. They would rather beg for bookies scraps.

 

[Outlander]

There is plenty of ready capital about for the right business.

I wouldn’t invest in any business where the dominant population in 10 years time are zealously religiously opposed to that business and will shut me down then they have power.

 

[pawras]

Exchanges both passed hands many time, not once did Racing put its hat on the ring and take control of its own destiny, they could basically price others out of using their data or threaten them to cease and desist like the HKJC did with Betfair and have it all for themselves. They would rather beg for bookies scraps.

I noticed HK is no longer on the exchange markets, just the sportbook, how did the HKJC block that?

 

[Outlander]

pawras

Jockey Club orders Betfair to cease and desist in scathing letter

In a scathing letter, the Hong Kong Jockey Club has told overseas betting exchange Betfair to cease and desist from offering Hong Kong markets, accusing them of being “reckless, cavalier and unconscionable” while compromising integrity....

www.scmp.com