Simply doesn't make any sense
pete , was there anything about the bets to alert them in some way or have you had any dealings with Ladbrokes ?
Do you think sports betting is a useless game?
- Thread starter Anne Kim
- Start date
pete , was there anything about the bets to alert them in some way or have you had any dealings with Ladbrokes ?
pete
Sire
All fresh bank accounts, fresh PC, fresh IP address, sometimes they last a couple of months, most of the time they last a couple of weeks, these were all usa horse racing bets ... i tend to start small and then ramp up bets on most accounts ... but most don't last very long at all.
90% of my bets are on exchange now. Its not much fun anymore.
markfinn
Sire
And when then fun stops the interest stops - and then the diehard horse racing punter says fuck it - well it’s just about fucked from a fun point of view -the lady’s days and club trips are not going to fund Monday to Thursdays novice races -we the general public - Joe blow - mug punters or good punters ) are being used , to facilitate the rich men’s game - what’s new ?
sniper7
Yearling
It’s a fair question.
When decades of accumulated racing knowledge now meet the instant precision of data, the game inevitably changes. What once rewarded intuition and pattern-spotting has become a contest of algorithms. For many, that takes away the thrill of outsmarting the crowd.
But leaving the field isn’t the only answer. The key is to shift our focus from “finding winners” to understanding behaviour — how markets learn, forget, and misprice over time. The modern punter can still find value, not by chasing angles, but by recognising when collective sentiment or memory slips.
That perspective keeps the game alive less as gambling, more as a study of human reaction under uncertainty. Racing remains a mirror of thought and bias and there’s lasting interest in observing how intelligence itself evolves inside it.
sniper7
Yearling
Food for thought: Would Maria still be able to make £100,000 a year, twenty years later, by applying the same principles?
Probably not in quite the same way. Markets evolve just as quickly as the people who study them, and liquidity has changed a lot since then. What once worked through discipline and selective staking now faces competition from algorithms and far tighter margins. Yet the spirit behind Maria’s method — patience, control, and emotional intelligence — remains timeless. The tools have changed; the temperament still decides who survives.
A serious punter can no longer operate effectively through the betting exchanges or the online bookmakers. The only real weapon left is the Tote, and only if he’s capable of consistently beating the SP. Otherwise, there’s very little left for him. The situation becomes even tighter if the Tote itself refuses large or winning players — though, to be honest, I’m not entirely sure whether they actually ban such bettors or not.
Probably not in quite the same way. Markets evolve just as quickly as the people who study them, and liquidity has changed a lot since then. What once worked through discipline and selective staking now faces competition from algorithms and far tighter margins. Yet the spirit behind Maria’s method — patience, control, and emotional intelligence — remains timeless. The tools have changed; the temperament still decides who survives.
A serious punter can no longer operate effectively through the betting exchanges or the online bookmakers. The only real weapon left is the Tote, and only if he’s capable of consistently beating the SP. Otherwise, there’s very little left for him. The situation becomes even tighter if the Tote itself refuses large or winning players — though, to be honest, I’m not entirely sure whether they actually ban such bettors or not.
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markfinn
Sire
Given all this knowledge / If you want or need to live of the game there are two realistic options you could either be a bookie and use your opinions against the crowd , end of the day the small bookies are amongst the real professionals in the gambling world , or more realistically you become a racing advisor with a regular customer pool. If the exchanges (Betfair) really clamped down that is probably the only realistic option for most - the tote even with SP guarantees and proform promotion still does not equal the prices available on BF , liquidity is a problem for large bets early on but that has always been a problem. There are some cute posters on here who could make advising pay.
pawras
Stallion
I think people's experiences with each bookmaker can vary a lot, re what sports they bet, when they bet and where in the market.
Me I only bet horses and nearly always in the upper quartile of the market.
I'm pretty much purely on the exchange now, I had a good run with bet365 and had taken a good 5 figures off them over the course of about 6 years before I got binned early 2016. I believe that's because of a rare for me double figure odds bet that won.
Boylesports binned me almost immediately. Sky I lasted about 9 months.
Ladbrokes is my oldest acc but is totally restricted, WH not as much. I have accs at betvictor and paddypower that I don't use hardly ever now so dunno what would happen if I did
I tend to back early to beat isp, which I do consistenly on avg, so I was flying when I had a BOG acc with early prices at bet365.
These days I back at much much lower levels cos there is ZERO chance of me handing over my personal financial info to some fkn cnt bookie. I'd rather walk away completely than do that
Me I only bet horses and nearly always in the upper quartile of the market.
I'm pretty much purely on the exchange now, I had a good run with bet365 and had taken a good 5 figures off them over the course of about 6 years before I got binned early 2016. I believe that's because of a rare for me double figure odds bet that won.
Boylesports binned me almost immediately. Sky I lasted about 9 months.
Ladbrokes is my oldest acc but is totally restricted, WH not as much. I have accs at betvictor and paddypower that I don't use hardly ever now so dunno what would happen if I did
I tend to back early to beat isp, which I do consistenly on avg, so I was flying when I had a BOG acc with early prices at bet365.
These days I back at much much lower levels cos there is ZERO chance of me handing over my personal financial info to some fkn cnt bookie. I'd rather walk away completely than do that
markfinn
Sire
Ladbrokes 1st over twenty years ago - terrible - and others swiftly followed suite had some success with min take out rules after Covid when some un expectantly and unasked for offered terms but Betfair is better so why bother with the others - Stan James ( remember them) were great for e/w round round robins with added bog that was great while it lasted but nothing lasts for ever. I know of one other serial daily punter who some how has lasted with 365 betting single £12.00 win bets.
It would be interesting know, how or why some successful accounts still remain overlooked especially when you hear of losing accounts being closed for no reason.
Is it time of day - stake size - beating the Sp - account association - the perceived manner of betting ie . is there knowledge that you are hunting around for best prices therefore flagging a business like approach ??
Although I have to confess it got so that placing the bets across various accounts was taking far longer than finding the bets .
It would be interesting know, how or why some successful accounts still remain overlooked especially when you hear of losing accounts being closed for no reason.
Is it time of day - stake size - beating the Sp - account association - the perceived manner of betting ie . is there knowledge that you are hunting around for best prices therefore flagging a business like approach ??
Although I have to confess it got so that placing the bets across various accounts was taking far longer than finding the bets .
I read people complaining about CAW syndicates especially yanks who mainly have tote for wagering, prices are smashed to pieces while the horses are going round the track, the horse goes off at 10 and the graphics change during the race to 3 and the punters are up in arms, some tracks have banned CAW activity later than 2MTP because of this.
I follow Hong Kong just yesterday winners were getting completely smashed in the last minute, 29>9.2, 8.7>3.8, 3>1.5, 3>1.8 etc , they are clairvoyant.
They leave no value in the tote returns if there is a 17.5 % rake and they are smashing all the winners down to their correct prices knowing the rebates will mean they will take the ordinary punters money, then what is the point of the tote for ordinary punters. I still think the CAWs overdo it slightly sometimes but overall unbelievable efficiency.
You have to get the odds beforehand but the bookies don’t allow you to be successful, so unless you have something better than the CAW teams on the exchanges then betting on horse racing and I suspect other sports is a useless game as the thread creator asked.
I follow Hong Kong just yesterday winners were getting completely smashed in the last minute, 29>9.2, 8.7>3.8, 3>1.5, 3>1.8 etc , they are clairvoyant.
They leave no value in the tote returns if there is a 17.5 % rake and they are smashing all the winners down to their correct prices knowing the rebates will mean they will take the ordinary punters money, then what is the point of the tote for ordinary punters. I still think the CAWs overdo it slightly sometimes but overall unbelievable efficiency.
You have to get the odds beforehand but the bookies don’t allow you to be successful, so unless you have something better than the CAW teams on the exchanges then betting on horse racing and I suspect other sports is a useless game as the thread creator asked.
markfinn
Sire
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OnTheNod
Mare
Yes BF is best but i dont like the idea of a 40% charge, 20% is ok if it was up to 100k take p.a. also i have used the Sport Book now and then and they were ok with me. But with bet 365 i could not even deposit 10 pounds so to watch their live tvs, and it seems funny as i dont think i have ever bet with them.
pawras
Stallion
Once I could get 3 figures on at bet365 no probs , these days my stake levels are fk all in comparison most of the time but even at that level bet365 is a no no because I'm generally limited to a max £10 take out.
The uk tote exactas and trifectas are on avg better prices than the forecasts and tricasts at the bookies, I have the data for both sides and have it tracked year by year.
If the tote tracked bsp instead of isp, I think they'd attract a lot more money, but I wouldn't agree with an api being in place so people/syndicates could pile money in at the last second, or if there was it shut down 5 mins before the off so they can't just fk it up for the rest.
I have my own set of rules re when I want to take a price, and I want the best possible price for my bet and it's generally a case of that is at an exchange
e.g. I backed Gold Old Days in the 1815 Chelmsford tonight, I took 2.5 on the exchange, it's now 2.16 there and a max of 2.2 elsewhere. It may even drift out again, or lose regardless, we'll see but I was willing to back my view at that price.
If you don't want people taking a price , fk off and only offer isp to everyone or just fobts and cartoon races cos you ain't a real bookmaker, the fact I took the view it was likely to shorten is all part of my analysis that I did re it's chances of winning.
The uk tote exactas and trifectas are on avg better prices than the forecasts and tricasts at the bookies, I have the data for both sides and have it tracked year by year.
If the tote tracked bsp instead of isp, I think they'd attract a lot more money, but I wouldn't agree with an api being in place so people/syndicates could pile money in at the last second, or if there was it shut down 5 mins before the off so they can't just fk it up for the rest.
I have my own set of rules re when I want to take a price, and I want the best possible price for my bet and it's generally a case of that is at an exchange
e.g. I backed Gold Old Days in the 1815 Chelmsford tonight, I took 2.5 on the exchange, it's now 2.16 there and a max of 2.2 elsewhere. It may even drift out again, or lose regardless, we'll see but I was willing to back my view at that price.
If you don't want people taking a price , fk off and only offer isp to everyone or just fobts and cartoon races cos you ain't a real bookmaker, the fact I took the view it was likely to shorten is all part of my analysis that I did re it's chances of winning.
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If the tote tracked BSP instead of ISP they wouldn’t make any profit as BSP is near 100% book , they can safely track ISP because the population betting at ISP is going to lose to the overound. The ISP is a safe space for them. I’m not sure because I have never bet at ISP but I would imagine bookies wouldn’t be as quick to ban and restrict ISP punters, they just really don’t like it if you best the ISP.
There are NO real bookmakers anymore , I sure of that.
Market Movers | At The Races
Check out the big movers of the day with our Market Movers section which lists the top steamers (horses being well backed) and top drifters (horses showing lack of support in the market) as well as price movements in every race.
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Who are the punters that get on to shift these odds ?
and tomorrow's early prices
13:50 | Cheltenham | Friday 24th October 2025 | At The Races
13:50 | Cheltenham | Friday 24th October 2025 | Holland Cooper 'Chasing Excellence' Novices' Chase (GBB Race)
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ALINAM Opened 6/1