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    AR

Bookmakers


Lee Keys mentioned 2 interesting approaches.

1. Bookies should "lay to lose" max per bet £x (£500 eg) - The Australian model (part of condition for receiving a licence)
2. The banks should have a facility where the customer can set their own monthly budget for gambling.

The first is self explanatory, and is still subjective, especially if the single customer view is implemented. The bookie can still stitch up a winning punter across the whole industry by tagging them as a problem gambler, then no one will touch them.

The second one would effectively put the kibosh on the single customer view idea and all the affordability checks shite, and give back the customer control without having to share personal information. If they tried to exceed their overall budget by depositing with another bookie, the transaction will be declined.

The off shore/whats app idea is a tricky one. Many scammers about that would be willing to offer a stupid price on an event. Everyone piles on, for chunks, it wins, and they then disappear.
 
Lee Keys mentioned 2 interesting approaches.

1. Bookies should "lay to lose" max per bet £x (£500 eg) - The Australian model (part of condition for receiving a licence)
2. The banks should have a facility where the customer can set their own monthly budget for gambling.

The first is self explanatory, and is still subjective, especially if the single customer view is implemented. The bookie can still stitch up a winning punter across the whole industry by tagging them as a problem gambler, then no one will touch them.

The second one would effectively put the kibosh on the single customer view idea and all the affordability checks shite, and give back the customer control without having to share personal information. If they tried to exceed their overall budget by depositing with another bookie, the transaction will be declined.

The off shore/whats app idea is a tricky one. Many scammers about that would be willing to offer a stupid price on an event. Everyone piles on, for chunks, it wins, and they then disappear.
1.Certain bookies do extend the possibility of limited max take out to some customers - but as you say it can just as easily be removed - I know some Aussies and the situation there is not a nationwide offer and even where its there are some problems

2. The banking facility ? - not sure that would work or be usable to all - the banks want just as much info as the bookies probably more , I would want a new bank and only one account, as its not unknown for your friendly bank manager to switch funds around your accounts if they see a default looming in one account , all unknown to you until you put your hand out for the funds its probably all in the 50 odds pages of those well read TC's - still annoying.

The "take it & scarper gang" a definite possibility or even a racing certainty that some will be caught.

What we never hear is any amounts mentioned , none of these blokes that we see on utube seem to absolutely rolling ( despite nearly all are flogging additional services) - I met some traders who told me that they paid the PC charges, incidentally they also paid a lot of money for a sectional time service and although they hated paying it was all acceptable for their business model.

He tells the tale of of getting evens to a £1000.00 with 365 near the of - you have to wonder if this is the bookmakers downfall EP BoG etc - punters beating their own false inflated SP - what volume of profit are they losing by closing all these accounts, they act as though every bet is a loser which we know is ridiculous.

The other point for me would be the number of bets made, this must flag punters as marks - if a punter is arbing every race then you can understand the annoyance, you are basically making a book on their book ,their software ,their investment , but whats the problem with that , the bigger the pot the more potential profit for them.

Also some of these speak about throwing some losing bets in on purpose to create a false impression - I have been told both by a big internet national bookmaking trader and a BF trader that does not work, its a fallacy and accounts can often be closed simply because the line managers expect to see a number of accounts restricted per month.
 
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How do you / we find them -

Why dont pinnacle come into the UK markets ?

Pinnacle pulled out of usa markets quite some time ago, there were roumors at the time that they were trying to go legit in UK, USA.
As to where to find them, they are somewhat experts at search engine optimization, they will pay big money to be top of search results and there are online forums specifically targeted at USA residents ... SBR was one that recently switched over and went legit after years of championing the "offshore" .. therx is another.
 
Arrocuda Arrocuda my understanding of this proposed SCV is that it will enable far more detail to be gleaned and exchanged than ie snare.
That is for sure mick mick . The thing is that as we all know ie snare is already providing them with enough data to close your account with because we know that if you continue to profit after all the offers are removed, they will shut you down. All SCV does is give them an extra reason to close it down, but the truth is that they have been closing accounts without giving any reasons at all for years now. Personally, I tend go with Anthony Kaminskas when he said that systems/methods that depend upon EP's or BOG to show a profit are not scaleable long term and if you are truly serious about making decent money you need to look for things that work on the exchanges. I found that out myself a long time ago hence the reason as to why I don't use bookies anymore and I play the late markets. Trying to get a decent bet on in fivers and change before the price collapses is nigh on impossible and takes far too long to do even if you were to be successful in the end.

Offshore bookies are not really interested in small stakes punters and certainly won't be offering any incentives such as BOG or EP, so you have to be working on methods that at least stand up to ISP or it won't be worth your while opening an account with them anyway.
 
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So with this SCV what are they going to do about cash betters in shops?
I was reading three years ago that Corals where having expensive facial recognition software fitted in there Shops and this would not be to protect there staff or problem gamblers. I know for a fact that prior to this photos of winning customers where circulated by some firms and clearly not just local as awayday attempts by the same punters where also foiled.

What they would likely do is use SCV to exchange this info overtly, especially as some who have been blocked on line may try reverting to cash in the shops. Last year when mask wearing was mandatory i read of incidents when betting shop staff required some customers to lower there mask before deciding if they could accept the bet. !
 
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Also some of these speak about throwing some some losing bets in on purpose to create a false impression - I have been told both by a big internet national bookmaking trader and a BF trader that does not work.
If every punter decided not to bet as an example for the next three Saturdays this would work, and lets be honest most of us would not be out of pocket if doing so. A sad dream i know but sadder still that the need is there.
 
The online betting accs I have and that are still usable have all been open a long time, I joined Geoff Banks and they then asked for bank statements so didn't progress that one, I will pack it all in and entertain myself some other way before I give any cnt bookie access to bank statement or p60s or owt else like that. I'm more likely to go the other way and bet purely via cash, paypal or crypto as I don't even like them having my account number.

TBH what I bet/win/lose is not at any level that's going to really impact me either way so in the end I can just go meh! But whether it is or not is not the business of any cnt but me.
 
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I was excluse to BF once they went 2% - I have 4 live bookies one I wont use and two that were mysteriously reopened with a min take out of around 400 - although it has not been confirmed , just always works out to a min, the other is a bit more lax but can also be more restrictive if the mood takes them - I generally don't bother until after 1pm - since the lock downs I have reverted back to BF I always get what I want on although would like long odds you have to be realistic and given a decent SR ? As long as I get the min required that's ok - not a big staker compared to some but far bigger than others. I know the frustrations that some must find when trying to get large amounts on at extended odds but feel that have to be realistic. Having spent years spending more time trying to place bets than actually studying races , released the futility of over ambition. As pawras pawras says if it comes to the point where I cannot bet then that's ok , but cannot see that happening.
 
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The biggest problem is finding a decent bet
Can't disagree with that. I use Betfair 95% of the time with a Betdaq account as a standby in case B/f goes down. I also have a Bet365 and a Matchbook account although TBH, I rarely use the Bet365 one, but it's handy for the occasional multiple bet which is probably why I've managed to keep it for so long. The problem for me is that my flat action isn't as good as my jumps and I find that although there are value bets to be found on the flat, the margins are so much thinner. Last season I decided to try casting the net out a little further and look for the bigger odds value, but I found it was a lot longer between drinks although the ROI was better. For me it's about finding that elusive middle ground that optimises the ROI without the roller coaster ride of long losing runs. I've got a new strategy lined up for next season that I tested over last season that could be the answer, but I'm not sure I'm that confident to start a new thread just yet.

The downside of exchange betting is that you are forced to play the late market and most all the time on the flat the obvious value plays have already been had. I think I just to have to accept the fact that the residual nuggets (if any), lay deeper on the flat than they do over jumps.
 
Can't disagree with that. I use Betfair 95% of the time with a Betdaq account as a standby in case B/f goes down. I also have a Bet365 and a Matchbook account although TBH, I rarely use the Bet365 one, but it's handy for the occasional multiple bet which is probably why I've managed to keep it for so long. The problem for me is that my flat action isn't as good as my jumps and I find that although there are value bets to be found on the flat, the margins are so much thinner. Last season I decided to try casting the net out a little further and look for the bigger odds value, but I found it was a lot longer between drinks although the ROI was better. For me it's about finding that elusive middle ground that optimises the ROI without the roller coaster ride of long losing runs. I've got a new strategy lined up for next season that I tested over last season that could be the answer, but I'm not sure I'm that confident to start a new thread just yet.

The downside of exchange betting is that you are forced to play the late market and most all the time on the flat the obvious value plays have already been had. I think I just to have to accept the fact that the residual nuggets (if any), lay deeper on the flat than they do over jumps.

Why not just work the NH and AW have the summer of - I really don't think you would miss much , far to many turf races crammed full of the unknown - just a matter of taking the leap and making the decision about working patterns
 
Why not just work the NH and AW have the summer of - I really don't think you would miss much , far to many turf races crammed full of the unknown - just a matter of taking the leap and making the decision about working patterns
When you do it for a living you need to optimise your returns as best you can. Depending upon jumps alone is too much like having all your eggs in the one basket for me. I do do a little AW at this time of year but I tend to restrict it to the better class races and only novices. Problem with that is there are not many quality races to go at and come mid January the market has the measure of them because it's such a small pool of horses running under similar conditions day in day out. As it happens I'm using a similar approach to the turf next year in that I've decided to restrict it to <=class 4 races with the odd class 5 but only at the higher graded courses (Ascot, Sandown, Newmarket etc etc), but apart from that it's a completely different method.
 
I try and spread my bets around where I can in order to minimize exposure and avoid account closure, my Ladbrokes account went away very quickly and it looks like my net losing betfred account is also on it's last legs.

The two accounts are not connected in any way shape or form in terms of names and or addresses on the accounts and different ip addresses, computers, logins, and debit cards are attached to each separate account ...

My betfred account has been open for close to 12 months now with no issues and is running a net loss overall ... and yet as soon as Ladbrokes restrict and close an account that I had open for less than two weeks and with less than 100 quid of action on the account, the betfred account starts limiting to a max takeout of 20 quid per bet within a few days.

Whatever tracking they are using already seems to be working a treat, am not sure that they need to improve the system much more than they already have. ;)
 
Whatever tracking they are using already seems to be working a treat, am not sure that they need to improve the system much more than they already have. ;)
Theoretically you could get around ie snare on the same PC (Mac, Windows or Linux), by using Opera browser and it's VPN that comes as standard or by installing the Tor browser. Both of them use proxy servers to forward your data and by doing so hide your IP address from the site you are accessing. I use Opera when I go on holiday cos Betfair recognises the country I am in and if it's on their prohibited list it won't let you sign in. I've never been refused access where ever I've been using Opera's VPN facility. What this means is that every time you connect the bookies website records a different IP address making it impossible to allocate the ie snare data to your particular account.

Has anyone tried it?
 
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Not used Opera but I did use a VPN once - forget which Company but I was fired a warning shot almost immediately that if I used it again my account would be closed so would urge a bit of caution there as I am sure most T&C wil forbid use of VPN or disguising in any form so any joy of getting around these things MAY be shortlived. Then again I am aware of others that do use them successfully so may be very dependant on the bookie, or indeed the particular VPN? No expert BTW just a comment
 
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Not used Opera but I did use a VPN once - forget which Company but I was fired a warning shot almost immediately that if I used it again my account would be closed so would urge a bit of caution there as I am sure most T&C wil forbid use of VPN or disguising in any form so any joy of getting around these things MAY be shortlived. Then again I am aware of others that do use them successfully so may be very dependant on the bookie, or indeed the particular VPN? No expert BTW just a comment
Just did a quick test using Opera and Tor browsers and found that Betfair was accessible by Opera but not Tor, Unibet was accessible by both Opera and Tor but Bet365 couldn't be accessed by either. Obviously some bookies feel the need to prevent you getting around their skullduggery, so these are the ones most likely best avoided.
 
Just did a quick test using Opera and Tor browsers and found that Betfair was accessible by Opera but not Tor, Unibet was accessible by both Opera and Tor but Bet365 couldn't be accessed by either. Obviously some bookies feel the need to prevent you getting around their skullduggery, so these are the ones most likely best avoided.
Now you say it I think it may well have been 365 that warned me off - not 100% on that though
 
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