• Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a free 7 day trial of Horseracebase here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Horseracebase so help is always available if needed, as well as dedicated section of the fourm here.
    Best Wishes
    AR

Bet Angel

I have to say that although only been few days trying it but its a very informative way of looking at markets and quite an education to what goes on £ between the whole numbers - there are loads of ways to use the product and perhaps not all are for every one - but even straight win only backers can use it
pawras said:
m just anti handing my dosh to other people by losing or anything else.
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Strange because I would thought with your way of working - spread sheets and numbers it would really be beneficial and come very easy to you
 
markfinn said:
I have to say that although only been few days trying it but its a very informative way of looking at markets and quite an education to what goes on £ between the whole numbers - there are loads of ways to use the product and perhaps not all are for every one - but even straight win only backers can use it


Strange because I would thought with your way of working - spread sheets and numbers it would really be beneficial and come very easy to you
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I'm not at all against trading or bet angel.
I dabble with trading & I've even used bet angel.
 
being a tax payer it hurts me to see any earnings going tariff free - if they brought back tax on betting would Betfair be pressed to drop their excessive tax on earning's - In theory they will ( should but I suppose their accounts see to it that they dont) pay tax on these large customers turnover charges.
 
markfinn said:
being a tax payer it hurts me to see any earnings going tariff free - if they brought back tax on betting would Betfair be pressed to drop their excessive tax on earning's - In theory they will ( should but I suppose their accounts see to it that they dont) pay tax on these large customers turnover charges.
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Imo I get shat on from a great height re tax on everything else I make, so the tax free nature of gambling winnings has an appeal to me.

If the gov put tax back on betting then backers would just end up getting double teamed by the gov & betfair.
 
nicksar said:
Is your default mental setting set at "be negative about everything" Kenny?
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Hi Nick
There is a fine line betwixt negativity and reality:

Well the reality(as opposed to the negativity) is I have yet to meet a winning trader,and I have yet to see a trader proving that it could be done by going live for a month,or even a week to show the proof of the pudding.
Unless that is you or someone else can point me in the right direction and enable me to lift this gloom of negativity:lol::lol:
kenny
 
With traditional betting you have one choice to make...to bet..it's a single decision.With trading you have three decisions to make,lay...bet...get out(or bet ...lay...get out)
The mechanics of the trading software will enable you to do that(albeit most of the time getting out with a loss) but the software will not be able to accurately predict the direction the market will take.The days when you just followed the money to scalp went when the bookies started hedging off big style and consequently totally distorting the markets making following the money almost impossible,the fluctuations become deadly and near impossible to control.
My advice is not to get so absorbed in the softwares bells and whistles that you forget the fundamental principles of betting.
Having said that I use Cymatic Trader(IMHO the best on the market) for my betting and laying(not for trading)
But I will say it again,and I cant stress this enough,dont let the apparent sophistication of the software beguile you into thinking trading is a breeze,it's not.Remember all of this trading software is just souped up versions of the betfair API,nothing too clever there then.
 
This is actually a decent video.


Although I agree with kenny jones kenny jones I have yet to see a supposedly successful trader really show how it can be done, I’m happy to be proven otherwise, I also understand why in the end they don’t because why would you give away hard earned knowledge, I certainly wouldn’t but I wouldn’t have any desire to make youtube vids either for people to listen to my dulcet tones.

Plus it’s not in their interests to have others doing exactly the same as them chasing potentially the same liquidity, but they should be at least a bit more honest about it.

However as the exchange is a zero sum game it’s in their interest to entice new liquidity to the market as others give up and leave.

I dabble with trading but I'm no expert by a long long way but the mathematics of it and margins means that to make more than petrol money it’s always appeared to me, although I could well be wrong, you either have to be looking to make big swing trades which have a greater chance of the market not moving the way you want, be sat at your pc for hours scalping away small amounts, or look to do scalping with large amounts in very liquid markets but even in such markets larger amounts might not get matched.

E.g. this would be a typical scalp but you’d need a lot of these to make anything meaningful and no matter what some videos would have you believe the market doesn’t always follow the direction you’d like.

1606586490279.png

Do you make numerous little scalps as the market travels in a direction or go for a single swing trade which has higher risk?

1606586522707.png
 
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kenny jones said:
With traditional betting you have one choice to make...to bet..it's a single decision.With trading you have three decisions to make,lay...bet...get out(or bet ...lay...get out)
The mechanics of the trading software will enable you to do that(albeit most of the time getting out with a loss) but the software will not be able to accurately predict the direction the market will take.The days when you just followed the money to scalp went when the bookies started hedging off big style and consequently totally distorting the markets making following the money almost impossible,the fluctuations become deadly and near impossible to control.
My advice is not to get so absorbed in the softwares bells and whistles that you forget the fundamental principles of betting.
Having said that I use Cymatic Trader(IMHO the best on the market) for my betting and laying(not for trading)
But I will say it again,and I cant stress this enough,dont let the apparent sophistication of the software beguile you into thinking trading is a breeze,it's not.Remember all of this trading software is just souped up versions of the betfair API,nothing too clever there then.
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Not getting too anything - just using it to bet and lay using the ladders - nicking a few lays along the way. I like using , its better than betting on BF - Cymatic ia cerrainly cheap enough and perhaps that one to change over too at the end of the year . I have not tried the automation as no real desire to that and prefer to just back my own picks and look for any value in those close in ratings - backed 2 place bets (both winners) not something I would ever normally look at. The shine may well rub of.
 
markfinn said:
Not getting too anything - just using it to bet and lay using the ladders - nicking a few lays along the way. I like using , its better than betting on BF - Cymatic ia cerrainly cheap enough and perhaps that one to change over too at the end of the year . I have not tried the automation as no real desire to that and prefer to just back my own picks and look for any value in those close in ratings - backed 2 place bets (both winners) not something I would ever normally look at. The shine may well rub of.
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Hi Markfinn,
I can certainly recommend Cymatic,the guy who runs it is very amiable and answers most queries within hours(minutes sometimes) I used the Geeks Toy and Gruss (both good) but I decidd on Cymatic in the end.Have you tried integration with Excel yet for automating...that can be great fun :)
kenny
 
kenny jones said:
Hi Markfinn,
I can certainly recommend Cymatic,the guy who runs it is very amiable and answers most queries within hours(minutes sometimes) I used the Geeks Toy and Gruss (both good) but I decidd on Cymatic in the end.Have you tried integration with Excel yet for automating...that can be great fun :)
kenny
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No but would like to see how that can be done - my spreads create an odds line - cant they all - easy stuff - so I would like to bet and lay on over and under value - aka Barry Medows sort of automatically speaking - I usually back in the basement races - big Eye Opener today in the higher classes - would not have seen the opportunity if not for messing with API software regardless of its name - so educational at least
 
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nicksar said:
As you know markfinn markfinn i use Bet Angel & i wouldn't be without it even if i didn't "trade" pre race sometimes,i'm not sure what your asking but it is possible to (say) just keep your profit on a particular runner without "greening up" to create a bet to nothing on that horse & you can do the same on another runner in the same race and have two running for you as "bets to nothing"...or you can just take a field profit regardless of what may win the race....i have had plenty of pre race trades that have gone against me & i will take a loss overall on the race (before the off) that BetAngel equalises for me (reducing my liability on the horse i have traded).
I would strongly recommend that you watch some videos on crossover points & resistance points,that will help you understand what the market is doing much better.
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Hi Nick not used this very much .I wondered if you could me help on Betdaq for betangel? I want to back dogs on price I predict when the price is above my prediction 10 sec before the off? Can I use a spreadsheet with my predictions on so its quick. It would take for ever loading every dog into bet angel? Regards Tony
 
T tony spencer I don't think you could do that on Betdaq with Bet Angel free version,
You could do it on Betfair with Bet Angel professional (I think) I've never used a spreadsheet for bets myself,I also think Gruss can be linked to a spreadsheet.
Plenty of threads about this sort of thing on the Bet Angel forum.
 
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tony spencer said:
Hi Nick not used this very much .I wondered if you could me help on Betdaq for betangel? I want to back dogs on price I predict when the price is above my prediction 10 sec before the off? Can I use a spreadsheet with my predictions on so its quick. It would take for ever loading every dog into bet angel? Regards Tony
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A few years since I did something similar with Horse Racing and I had a excel sheet, no idea if I could still find it probably not as it was on an old PC.
I didn‘t use Bet Angel , I used Gruss Software free for Betdaq and searched for excel triggered betting and got the sheet somewhere off the internet , not clever enough to build my own sheet but I adapted it and it worked well and did all the things you wanted, if I remember correctly I had another a sheet with all my selections and minimum odds, pasted it straight on to the trigger sheet and it fired it bets at certain times I had set it up for.
 
Earlier in the thread, someone doubted that people really made money by scalping/trading on Betfair.

If people didn't make money scalping, then Betfair wouldn't have introduced their Premium Charge, since there'd be no-one to pay it.
 
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