• Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a free 7 day trial of Horseracebase here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Horseracebase so help is always available if needed, as well as dedicated section of the fourm here.
    Best Wishes
    AR

Bet Angel

markfinn

markfinn

Sire
Trying to get into this and obviously its slanted heavily towards traders not something I know much about - but they have some great vids - one aspect of exchange betting is the costs and the PC charges - I think Peter Webb does a great job here of explaining a fairly complicated idea.


 
I’ve used the tennis predictor on it years ago, it’s a brilliant tool to scalp servers -it accurately predicts odds so that you can learn to scalp. I’d advise using it on only competitive matches where you have strong servers though 😉
 
Can I ask - scalping get the idea of small increments back lay or .1 then green up - what is the argument against taking the profit on every individual trade - rather than trading out in groups of trades or just one trade per race ? hope that make sense
 
As you know markfinn markfinn i use Bet Angel & i wouldn't be without it even if i didn't "trade" pre race sometimes,i'm not sure what your asking but it is possible to (say) just keep your profit on a particular runner without "greening up" to create a bet to nothing on that horse & you can do the same on another runner in the same race and have two running for you as "bets to nothing"...or you can just take a field profit regardless of what may win the race....i have had plenty of pre race trades that have gone against me & i will take a loss overall on the race (before the off) that BetAngel equalises for me (reducing my liability on the horse i have traded).
I would strongly recommend that you watch some videos on crossover points & resistance points,that will help you understand what the market is doing much better.
 
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nicksar said:
As you know markfinn markfinn i use Bet Angel & i wouldn't be without it even if i didn't "trade" pre race sometimes,i'm not sure what your asking but it is possible to (say) just keep yoiur profit on a particular runner without "greening up" to create a bet to nothing on that horse & you can do the same on another runner in the same race and have two running for you as "bets to nothing"...or you can just take a field profit regardless of what may win the race....i have had plenty of pre race trades that have gone against me & i will take a loss overall on the race (before the off) that BetAngel equalises for me (reducing my liability on the horse i have traded).
I would strongly recommend that you watch some videos on crossover points & resistance points,that will help you understand what the market is doing much better.
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Thanks - I asked the wrong question really - it was do betfair penalise for number of bets - I have the answer here for future ref - they charge for more than 5000 bets per hour - so I think I am safe on that one
 
Thanks nicksar nicksar funny I was looking through BetAngel forum and saw his mentioned with link - loads of of utube vids I have subscribed and will stick him on the watch an listen to lists when on my travels - its quite educational to see how these markets perform in milliseconds and then be out at the off - proves the market accuracy in terms of SR but says little about the market indicator of actual form chance
 

Betfair

Sign up for a £30 FREE bet with Betfair. Cash Out your In-Play bets, place a Multiple and get the best value. We also offer Games, Poker, Bingo and Casino. Bet & Win now.
www.betfair.com www.betfair.com

7. Transaction Charges​

7.1 This section only applies to the Betfair Exchange.

7.2 In addition to any commission payments, Betfair customers will be charged a transaction fee if they process a large number of transactions on the main Betting Exchange or on Exchange Games.

This charge is designed to limit inefficient transactional behaviour, particularly at peak times.

7.3 A ‘transaction’ shall include all bets placed and all failed transactions. Transaction Charges only apply to customers recording more than 5000 transactions an hour.

7.4 For the purpose of calculating Transaction Charges, an “hour” means a continuous period of 60 minutes based on the standard 24-hour clock system. Each new ‘hour’ will start at on the hour (e.g. 10:00:00) and finish at 59 minutes and 59 seconds past that hour (e.g.10.59:59).
 
I did some modelling in excel on premium charges at one point and the type of betting you do not just the amount you make impacts how quickly they hammer you with pc.
 
markfinn said:
Trying to get into this and obviously its slanted heavily towards traders not something I know much about - but they have some great vids - one aspect of exchange betting is the costs and the PC charges - I think Peter Webb does a great job here of explaining a fairly complicated idea.


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Watching the first vid at 7:29 he seems to state that with gambling you pay commission on your stake + return , rather than just net profit on the market in trading. Hmm I might have misunderstood what he said but it's net profit on the market whether you've done 1 back or 1 lay or a 1000 of each any perm of.

His spreadsheet demonstrates the difference in the amount of commission paid between backing and trading but distorts things a bit because the straight betting ex covers 8 markets, winning 4 and losing 4 and the trading ex just 5 markets , winning 4 and losing 1.
Although the commission would still be in tradings favour a clearer ex would be to use 10 markets for each

One thing he could have mentioned re pure backing is, yes you are paying a greater amount of commission on the straight back bets but you are more concerned about whether you are beating bookie prices and isp after any commission, or still getting the target price you want, rather than your commission paid vs someone trading.

I know he wanted to focus on amount of commission paid but one ommission in his spresheet is how much was initially risked to make the trading profit, i.e. to make 12.5 you need to have made a number of trades or probably risked more than 100 on one swing trade because to make 12.5 from a swing trade with an initial back of 100 you need to a big swing such as this e.g. 23% drop from 2.0 to 1.7777

1606489786379.png

In part 2 he starts to sound like someone from betfair at times....

Something he could have talked about is that when modelling when you'll hit pc you have to consider implied commission.

Betfair Charges

This article provides information on Betfair Charges.
www.betfair.com www.betfair.com

1606489762444.png
 
markfinn said:
Trying to get into this and obviously its slanted heavily towards traders not something I know much about - but they have some great vids - one aspect of exchange betting is the costs and the PC charges - I think Peter Webb does a great job here of explaining a fairly complicated idea.


Click to expand...

Mark,

you can take what im about to say with a degree of confidence from my "own" Experience, but
suffice to say via analogy... during the great gold rush in america back in the day....

it turns out that the only people who realy made any significant money, were the people selling the pans.
 
rave154 said:
Mark,

you can take what im about to say with a degree of confidence from my "own" Experience, but
suffice to say via analogy... during the great gold rush in america back in the day....

it turns out that the only people who realy made any significant money, were the people selling the pans.
Click to expand...

Absolutely spot on!!!! .And I have yet to see from any of these pan sellers a months (or even a week)LIVE trading to back up their claims
Kenny
 
rave154 said:
Mark,

you can take what im about to say with a degree of confidence from my "own" Experience, but
suffice to say via analogy... during the great gold rush in america back in the day....

it turns out that the only people who realy made any significant money, were the people selling the pans.
Click to expand...
Are you excepting the bookies in this
 
I'd have to look at it again properly but I think my conclusion last time was that you need to mask your real stuff with a lot of break even churn which is easier said than done.
 
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Any way we against Bet Angel - Traders in general or just the Betfair PC charges or just anti exchange on the principle that we love paying the bookmakers over round
 
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