• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
  • There seems to be a problem with some alerts not being emailed to members. I have told the hosts and they are investigating.
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting

    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
    Keep safe.

The Fine Form Master Formula


I had Mamoora at 5pts retriever retriever? Billesdon Brooke top rated 10pts.
Arhh, got you......HRB doesn't separate the seasons on it racecards.....forgot about that.....no runs this season.
Long time since I used the method. Only looked in here earlier and saw brumbie's post, and I had Mamoora in one of my personal Trends today, so wrongly crossed put 2 and 2 together and got 5.
Now, I wonder if this is a new system in the making!! Ignore the seasons......hmmm


Try with Fineform plus Prof George considerations but little enthusiasm due to the going, which is not getting better, although maybe OK as it's only 5f?

Musselburgh (going forecast S with some GS showers) RP Spotlight selects Quanah (2 pundits agree 8 oppose)
3.30 Market expected 09.25* no's 1, 2, 7, 8, 10 indicating a win restricted to these. Theoretical strong fav 2/1, possible contender 4/1, not expected longer than 8/1. Economic Crisis not considered as out of the long hcap.

1*. 20 = 9/2 Fineform (7/2 mkt) Militia 3 tips (C&D2D3) +12 George consideration rating. (good draw not rated)
2*. 15 = 7/1 (4/1) Glory Fighter 2 tips (D3) +8
3. 7 = 15/1 (17/2)
6. 6 = 18/1 (10/1)
7*. 13 = 15/2 (6/1) Show Palace 1 tip (D12 +8 (good draw not rated)
8*. 12 = 8/1 (11/2)
9. 6 = 18/1 (16/1)
10*. 11 = 9/1 (9/2)
13. 8 = 13/1 (14/1)
14?. 12 = 8/1 (33/1)

Comment: The selection is Militia.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
MILITIA followed up a C&D victory when scoring at Chester earlier in the month and another 4lb rise from the handicapper may not stop the five-year-old from continuing his progression. Gowanbuster was unable to land the hat-trick when third to the selection here last month but he is likely to enter the reckoning once again, while Glory Fighter warrants the utmost respect in his bid for a hat-trick of victories.

Top Tip: MILITIA (1)
Watch out for: GOWANBUSTER (4) non-runner)


I rate by Fineform attempting to identify those in the frame for form then as my collateral form reading is poor rate further critical factors advised by Prof. Frank George trying to get more definition in the selection. I have tried combining the two sets of rating but it doesn't work as one system :(.


formtheory formtheory I think Jackform Jackform detailed some of it on this thread:



formtheory formtheory, it's not a secret but it does need some explanation :prankster: . In '78 Prof Frank George (head of the cybernetics dept Bristol uni) published, 'A Better Bet'. He may have been a top number cruncher of his time but he was a pretty naive punter i.e. he was trying to find value bets and employed retrieve staking :eek:. He passed away and a pro-tipster that I assisted at the time obtained his racing effects - he was a heartless b*gger! Among the papers was a draft for an updated book, circa 1985, which I have. By this time the prof was seeking viable bets :prankster:. The following is a synopsis of where he was getting too, not the absolute final one:

1) Class by course by prize money.
2) Class by form rating
3) Class by time rating
4) Weight carried
5) Recent form 1 last 2 outings
6) Recent form 2 percentages (Dowst?)
7) Distance
8) Odds
9) The Going (rated but only if splitting necessary.

The above are some of the factors I rate for further consideration of 'possibles', but not those already rated for Fineform - class, recent form, course, distance, form rating.
Last edited:


Try Beverley but I usually avoid soft going

Beverley (going forecast S showers) RP Spotlight selects Harrison Point (3 pundits agree 9 oppose)
2.30 Market expected 09.40* no's 1, 5, 6, 9, 10, 11 indicating an open contest. Theoretical strong fav 9/4, possible contender 9/2, not expected longer than 9/1.

1*. 10 = 17/2 Fineform (8/1 mkt)
2. 8 = 11/1 (25/1)
3. 6 = 14/1 (12/1)
4. 6 = 14/1 (16/1)
5*. 11 = 15/2 (5/1
6*. 14 = 11/2 (7/2) Harrison Point 4 tips (D3) 8 for George, draw*, G*.
8. 4 = 22/1 (16/1)
9*. 3 = 28/1 (11/2) (Amaysmont 1 tip - R Fahey 2nd string/P Hanagan up being supported early?)
10*. 18 = 4/1 (4/1) Le Chifre 3 tips (C&DBF) 8 for George, draw*, G*.
11*. 13 = 6/1 (6/1) Zip 1 tip (D3) 10 for George, draw*, G*.

Comment: I will go with the crowd Le Chifre and Harrison Point, with a nod to the Fahey yard who may have something up their sleeve

ATR form verdict in comparison.
HARRISON POINT knuckled down well to hold off subsequent winner Hajjam at Ayr last time and is expected to remain competitive off this 2lb higher mark. Le Chiffre bumped into a well treated runner from the Michael Bell stable, Bottom Bay, when runner-up over the extended 1m here last time and has seen the form franked by the winner since, though he is cutting back to 7f himself today. Recent Haydock scorer Zip looks best of the rest.

Watch out for: LE CHIFFRE (10)


I thought I might add my two-pennerth in my oafish pen -and-paper manner, but Soft to Heavy showers :eek: - they do say in Ireland it's only heavy when you can just see the jockey's cap above the ground.

Bellewestown (going forecast S to Hyy showers) RP Spotlight selects Teddy Boy (1 pundit agrees 1 opposes)
4.10 Market expected 13.50* no's 9, 10, 12 indicating a win restricted to these. Theoretical strong fav 5/2, possible contender 5/1, not expected longer than 10/1. Not considered no 14 as out of the long hcap.

1. 11 = 11/2 Fineform (11/1 mkt) +5 George consideration
9*. 20 = 5/2 (13/8 mkt) A Step Too Far +9
10*. 9 = 7/1 (15/8) Teddy Boy +12
12* 10 = 6/1 (11/2) Pillar +8

Comment: A Step Too Far is forecast as a strong favourite.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
TEDDY BOY continues to catch the eye in-running and could get his reward. His last victory came in October and since then he has been placed on five occasions, including on his last three starts. His latest decent effort came at Naas on Sunday when he chased home It's All A Joke on soft ground. He now avails of Dylan Browne McMonagle's 7lb claim which puts him on a very attractive mark. It's All A Joke runs under the 6lb penalty and has the plum draw in stall one. That Naas victory (over six furlongs) was a welcome return to form, but his record over five furlongs in Irish racetracks isn't inspiring and he could only manage sixth here yesterday. It's All A Joke's stablemate Pillar is a C&D winner who could show up well with Adam Farragher taking 7lb off his back. A Step Too Far won at Naas last month and followed up here yesterday, so has to enter the reckoning.
Top Tip: TEDDY BOY (10)
Watch out for: IT'S ALL A JOKE (13)


I thought I might throw my pennies worth in on a slightly hybrid fineform system.
It involves using the original 13 maximum ratings but instead of using 2 for distance and 1 for course winners I use a different rating system on those and also rate the amount of days since last race. It all comes together with a general handicapping system found on the web and I look for a maximum bet ie: everything is ranked 1st in it's own ratings....Phew!

This thread inspired me to put this together (automated in excel of course otherwise it would prob take hours). Since 22nd August it has in fact produced 18 bets with a strike rate of 61.11% (11/18) with +11.54 points after 5% tax. Place= 82.35% (14/17)+2.06.

It involves Australian and UK Racing. If I may, I will put a few days on here to see if this is jut a deviation from the mean.1 Australian runner today which came 3rd.I generally check the UK markets around 7pm (10am GST summer)...Thanks Guys.


This thread inspired me to put this together (automated in excel of course otherwise it would prob take hours).
That's something I have been meaning to get around to doing. I have always liked the basics of the Fineform formula and have always thought it was worth the time playing around with the ratings. Clive Holt has got knocked in certain quarters over the years but there was a lot of common sense in his books. I never regretted reading them and still grab one of his books from the shelf now and then.

Inspired by Chesham Chesham the other day I put together a 'Fineform system' in HRB which shows potential ( but yet to have a bet ).


This goes back to 2008 - so is a bit slow for my liking - so I would be looking to do something similar to you brumbie brumbie
Last edited:


I used to slowly make my way through the racing post form every day looking for "ran on"'s, weights compared to the fav etc and maybe get 1 or 2 winners...hours in the morning lol. Then I would check out how Clive Holt did in the evening and get depressed...it is simple but effective and is well worth an inclusion in any system IMO.
I used to be with HRB a few years back but now I'm retired and $50 a month can be spent on other things. Excel does most of what HRB does and of course Adrian Massey has been up and running again for a few years now. HRB is invaluable though, I had around 10 systems on there and it was a great hobby researching.

I always say if you can make just 1 point a day then you have cracked it. Just a tenner a point gets you your holiday money...lol....or beer of course.