Hunting for the snark

[cosmicsports]

Everyday I work out some sheets for the day's flat racing based on the collation of tips from the various websites. In the summer when there is lots of flat racing Ι can do two or three cards.

Can you help with your observations ?
Will your observations be of the type that spoil the works ?
Or you don't even like ?

Please let me know.

Here it goes for today:

The tipstersynthesis verdict page


Chelmsford 5.20 (UK time) 9 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 9-2-6
sportinglife.com: 3-2-4-6-1
timeform.com: 6-4-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 2-3-6-1-5-4
attheraces.com: 4-3-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 6-3-1-4
oddschecker.com: 4-3-2

Verdict: 6(20.0%),3(19.0%),2(16.0%),4(14.0%),1(8.0%),9(7.0%),5(6.0%),8(5.0%),7(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 7.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 5.50 (UK time) 9 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 7-6-2-8
sportinglife.com: 1-7-2-4-5-6
timeform.com: 7-2-6
racinguk.com (predictor): 7-6-4-9-2-5
attheraces.com: 7-6-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 2-4-1-9
oddschecker.com: 7-6-2

Verdict: 7(29.0%),2(18.0%),6(17.0%),4(8.0%),1(7.0%),9(6.0%),5(6.0%),8(5.0%),3(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 7.2)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 6.25 (UK time) 8 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 7-6-2-5
sportinglife.com: 7-1-2-3-4-5
timeform.com: 7-1-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 2-6-4-5-8-7
attheraces.com: 6-3-2-5
attheraces.com (predictor): 7-2-5-3
oddschecker.com: 6-3-2

Verdict: 7(25.0%),2(18.0%),6(14.0%),5(12.0%),3(10.0%),1(8.0%),4(7.0%),8(6.0%)
(difficulty index = 7.2)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 7.00 (UK time) 12 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 2-6-12-4
sportinglife.com: 3-2-10-6-1-8
timeform.com: 3-6-2
racinguk.com (predictor): 8-1-2-6-4-3
attheraces.com: 3-6-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 3-4-6-8
oddschecker.com: 3-6-2

Verdict: 3(19.0%),6(18.0%),2(17.0%),8(7.0%),4(7.0%),1(6.0%),12(5.0%),10(5.0%),5(4.0%),7(4.0%),11(4.0%),
9(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 9.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 7.30 (UK time) 10 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 6-5-1
sportinglife.com: 6-1-2-5-4-7-10
timeform.com: 1-5-9
racinguk.com (predictor): 1-6-5-7-10-8
attheraces.com: 1-5-7
attheraces.com (predictor): 3-5-8-1
oddschecker.com: 1-5-7

Verdict: 1(27.0%),5(21.0%),6(14.0%),7(7.0%),10(6.0%),8(5.0%),3(5.0%),9(5.0%),2(5.0%),4(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 7.9)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 8.00 (UK time) 8 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-6-2
sportinglife.com: 2-1-6-3-8-7-4-5
timeform.com: 1-6-2
racinguk.com (predictor): 2-6-7-3-1-8
attheraces.com: 1-2-3
attheraces.com (predictor): 2-6-1-3
oddschecker.com: 1-2-3

Verdict: 2(27.0%),1(26.0%),6(17.0%),3(8.0%),7(6.0%),8(6.0%),4(5.0%),5(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 8.30 (UK time) 6 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 4-2-6-5
sportinglife.com: 1-6-5-4-3-2
timeform.com: 1-6-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 5-6-1-4-3-2
attheraces.com: 4-6-3
attheraces.com (predictor): 1-6-5-3
oddschecker.com: 4-6-3

Verdict: 6(28.0%),1(20.0%),4(17.0%),5(14.0%),3(11.0%),2(10.0%)
(difficulty index = 5.6)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chelmsford 9.00 (UK time) 10 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 6-8
sportinglife.com: 6-3-5-8
timeform.com: 6-5-2
racinguk.com (predictor): 8-6-1-2-5-9
attheraces.com: 1-3-6
attheraces.com (predictor): 7-6-5-2
oddschecker.com: 1-3-6

Verdict: 6(34.0%),8(12.0%),5(10.0%),1(8.0%),3(8.0%),2(8.0%),7(6.0%),9(5.0%),4(5.0%),10(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 7.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thetipstersynthesis v 2.1, (c) CosmiC Software 2015-


(*) difficulty index = the average price in probability, based on unit stake, 100% payout percentage




Southwell A.W. 12.55 (UK time) 7 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 7-1-3-5
sportinglife.com: 7-6-4-5
timeform.com: 7-5-6
racinguk.com (predictor): 6-4-7-1-3-5
attheraces.com: 7-6-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 7-6-4-3
oddschecker.com: 7-6-2

Verdict: 7(39.0%),6(18.0%),5(11.0%),4(9.0%),1(9.0%),3(9.0%),2(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 5.6)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Southwell A.W. 1.30 (UK time) 14 run, scratches: 13
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 12-7-2-1
sportinglife.com: 12-7-2-3
timeform.com: 4-7-12
racinguk.com (predictor): 11-5-12-8-2-7
attheraces.com: 13-3-11
attheraces.com (predictor): 3-12-7-13
oddschecker.com: 13-3-11

Verdict: 12(21.0%),7(15.0%),3(9.0%),2(9.0%),11(8.0%),4(6.0%),5(6.0%),1(5.0%),8(5.0%),9(4.0%),10(4.0%),
6(4.0%),14(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 11.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Southwell A.W. 2.00 (UK time) 12 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 4-3-5-10
sportinglife.com: 5-10-4-8-3-1-11
timeform.com: 5-3-4
racinguk.com (predictor): 12-11-10-3-1-4
attheraces.com: 10-5-3
attheraces.com (predictor): 12-5-3-11
oddschecker.com: 10-5-3

Verdict: 5(21.0%),3(16.0%),10(12.0%),4(11.0%),12(7.0%),11(7.0%),1(5.0%),8(5.0%),9(4.0%),7(4.0%),2(4.0%),
6(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 9.9)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Southwell A.W. 2.35 (UK time) 6 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-5-3
sportinglife.com: 1-3-2-6-5
timeform.com: 1-3-5
racinguk.com (predictor): 1-2-3-4-5-6
attheraces.com: 1-3-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 2-1-5-3
oddschecker.com: 1-3-2

Verdict: 1(42.0%),3(21.0%),5(13.0%),2(12.0%),6(6.0%),4(6.0%)
(difficulty index = 4.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Southwell A.W. 3.10 (UK time) 8 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 7-8-3
sportinglife.com: 7-6-5-8
timeform.com: 7-3-8
racinguk.com (predictor): 6-8-7-3-1-2
attheraces.com: 7-6-8
attheraces.com (predictor): 2-7-3-8
oddschecker.com: 7-6-8

Verdict: 7(36.0%),8(17.0%),3(12.0%),6(12.0%),2(7.0%),1(6.0%),5(5.0%),4(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.2)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Southwell A.W. 3.45 (UK time) 10 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 3-4-7
sportinglife.com: 4-3-10-8-5-1
timeform.com: 3-8-2
racinguk.com (predictor): 4-1-8-10-7-3
attheraces.com: 3-4-7
attheraces.com (predictor): 4-2-1-7
oddschecker.com: 3-4-7

Verdict: 4(24.0%),3(23.0%),7(9.0%),8(9.0%),1(8.0%),2(7.0%),10(7.0%),5(5.0%),9(4.0%),6(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 8.2)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thetipstersynthesis v 2.1, (c) CosmiC Software 2015-


(*) difficulty index = the average price in probability, based on unit stake, 100% payout percentage

 

[steve78]

cosmicsports can you explain

 

[cosmicsports]

cosmicsports can you explain

Hello

Well, first of all those numbers are the saddle numbers if you are unfamiliar with the notation.
The rest you can understand, I hope.

Let me explain the first entry for the first race (first of Chelms).
The post says HUMOUR - Commanche - Quiet Warrior which is 9 - 2 - 6 in saddle numbers.
Their capital letters I take it is their first selection and then it goes in the order they appear in the verdict text.
Here is the post's verdict itself:

A few candidates for the lead in a race full of in-form veterans who are weighted to their recent best. The handicapper has clobbered Commanche for last month´s Newcastle win with an 11lb rise, but HUMOUR is around his last winning mark and risked in a race that could be run to suit, having been drawn wide on his last two starts here. A lot with Quiet Warrior will depend on how he settles this time, going without the hood.

So this is how all the rest of it goes.

* Sometimes it's tricky because maybe their fancied order of merit is not exactly what I make it to be.
So if they say something like "whereas xx has little chance here, we side with YY and also note zz" then it's YY-zz-xx note YY-xx-zz. One has to read all the words carefully to avoid that, but does n't happen very often and to all intends and purposes it's how I write it.



(The French use this method a lot.
Here is a professional French website with exhaustive daily press synthesis for France:

TurfPronos | À la croisée des pronostics turf)

 

[cosmicsports]

The final verdict is the compounded verdict following a certain researched addition law.
The idea is that "the composite tipster is better than the best of the individual tipsters".

 

[cosmicsports]

Helped me in the first of SW.
Miss Osier drifted so I went for the second selection Log Off that looked ok market-wise.
I discarded some others liked by the market.

 

[cosmicsports]

Wimboldsley fends off Autumn Tonic.

 

[cosmicsports]

Bring on a spinner, races finished for today.

 

[*tom*]

races finished for today.

Why?

 

[cosmicsports]

It's 16-14 if all

Why?

It's 16-14 to me if all that remains fails (from SW-Chelm).

 

[cosmicsports]

20-01-2017 (Lingfield, Woverhampton)

The tipstersynthesis verdict page


Lingfield A.W. 1.00 (UK time) 9 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 5-1
sportinglife.com: 5-1-3-8-6-4-9
timeform.com: 5-1-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 5-6-3-4-7-1
attheraces.com: 5-1-9
attheraces.com (predictor): 5-3-1-6
oddschecker.com: 5-1-9

Verdict: 5(40.0%),1(18.0%),3(10.0%),6(7.0%),4(6.0%),9(5.0%),7(5.0%),8(5.0%),2(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lingfield A.W. 1.30 (UK time) 10 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 8-2-3-6-1
sportinglife.com: 7-1-4-2-6
timeform.com: 6-1-4
racinguk.com (predictor): 6-4-1-3-5-2
attheraces.com: 6-4-1
attheraces.com (predictor): 6-2-9-1-4
oddschecker.com: 6-4-1

Verdict: 6(27.0%),1(16.0%),4(13.0%),2(10.0%),3(7.0%),8(7.0%),7(6.0%),5(5.0%),9(5.0%),10(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 8.3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lingfield A.W. 2.00 (UK time) 4 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-2
sportinglife.com: 1-4-3-2
timeform.com: 1-2-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 1-2-4-3
attheraces.com: 1-2-3-4
attheraces.com (predictor): 2-1-4-3
oddschecker.com: 1-2-3

Verdict: 1(48.0%),2(28.0%),3(12.0%),4(12.0%)
(difficulty index = 3.4)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lingfield A.W. 2.35 (UK time) 10 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 2-6-10-7
sportinglife.com: 5-1-7-3-6
timeform.com: 10-7-2
racinguk.com (predictor): 1-5-4-7-2-8
attheraces.com: 6-8-7-5
attheraces.com (predictor): 5-1-2-4
oddschecker.com: 6-8-10

Verdict: 7(15.0%),5(14.0%),2(13.0%),6(12.0%),1(11.0%),10(10.0%),8(7.0%),4(7.0%),3(6.0%),9(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 9.4)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lingfield A.W. 3.10 (UK time) 10 run, scratches: 5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-4-8
sportinglife.com: 1-8-4-6-9-3
timeform.com: 1-8-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 1-4-3-6-8-9
attheraces.com: 1-9-3
attheraces.com (predictor): 8-4-3-1
oddschecker.com: 1-9-8

Verdict: 1(35.0%),8(16.0%),4(13.0%),3(11.0%),9(7.0%),6(6.0%),2(4.0%),7(4.0%),10(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lingfield A.W. 3.40 (UK time) 8 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-4-5-3
sportinglife.com: 4-1-5-7-2-3
timeform.com: 5-4-3
racinguk.com (predictor): 4-7-2-1-5-3
attheraces.com: 4-1-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 5-1-7-8
oddschecker.com: 4-1-2

Verdict: 4(28.0%),1(19.0%),5(18.0%),3(9.0%),7(8.0%),2(8.0%),8(5.0%),6(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.7)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thetipstersynthesis v 2.1, (c) CosmiC Software 2015-


(*) difficulty index = the average price in probability, based on unit stake, 100% payout percentage




Wolverhampton A.W. 5.45 (UK time) 7 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 1-5-6
sportinglife.com: 5-1-4-3-2-6
timeform.com: 1-5-4
racinguk.com (predictor): 5-4-6-1-3-2
attheraces.com: 6-1-4
attheraces.com (predictor): 4-1-3-2
oddschecker.com: 6-1-4

Verdict: 1(30.0%),5(21.0%),4(15.0%),6(14.0%),3(8.0%),2(7.0%),7(5.0%)
(difficulty index = 6.0)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wolverhampton A.W. 6.15 (UK time) 11 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 7-5
sportinglife.com: 5-10-9-6-7-8-4-1
timeform.com: 5-7-10
racinguk.com (predictor): 5-10-4-7-1-2
attheraces.com: 5-7-2
attheraces.com (predictor): 10-9-7-1
oddschecker.com: 5-7-2

Verdict: 5(28.0%),7(20.0%),10(11.0%),9(6.0%),4(6.0%),1(6.0%),2(5.0%),6(5.0%),8(5.0%),3(4.0%),11(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 8.4)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wolverhampton A.W. 6.45 (UK time) 12 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 5-4
sportinglife.com: 5-12-4-8-11
timeform.com: 5-4-8
racinguk.com (predictor): 4-12-5-7-8-11
attheraces.com: 5-4-8-11
attheraces.com (predictor): 7-5-9-4
oddschecker.com: 5-4-8

Verdict: 5(31.0%),4(20.0%),8(8.0%),12(7.0%),7(6.0%),11(6.0%),9(4.0%),1(4.0%),3(4.0%),10(4.0%),2(3.0%),
6(3.0%)
(difficulty index = 8.4)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wolverhampton A.W. 7.15 (UK time) 12 run, scratches: 3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 10-12-11-9
sportinglife.com: 1-10-5-2-12
timeform.com: 10-2-5
racinguk.com (predictor): 10-5-9-2-11-1
attheraces.com: 1-2-10
attheraces.com (predictor): 1-10-3-9
oddschecker.com: 1-2-5

Verdict: 10(30.0%),1(12.0%),2(11.0%),5(9.0%),9(8.0%),12(7.0%),11(7.0%),4(4.0%),8(4.0%),6(4.0%),7(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 8.8)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wolverhampton A.W. 7.45 (UK time) 12 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 5-1-8
sportinglife.com: 7-1-10-8-2
timeform.com: 7-10-12
racinguk.com (predictor): 8-1-7-10-2-5
attheraces.com: 8-10-1
attheraces.com (predictor): 5-7-1-12
oddschecker.com: 8-10-1

Verdict: 1(16.0%),8(15.0%),7(15.0%),10(12.0%),5(10.0%),2(6.0%),12(6.0%),3(4.0%),9(4.0%),4(4.0%),11(4.0%),
6(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 10.3)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wolverhampton A.W. 8.15 (UK time) 13 run, scratches:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
racingpost.com: 5-6
sportinglife.com: 5-6-12-11
timeform.com: 5-12-11
racinguk.com (predictor): 12-1-3-8-5-4
attheraces.com: 5-11-6
attheraces.com (predictor): 6-11-8-12
oddschecker.com: 8-10-1

Verdict: 5(25.0%),6(12.0%),12(11.0%),11(10.0%),8(6.0%),1(6.0%),3(5.0%),4(5.0%),10(4.0%),7(4.0%),2(4.0%),
9(4.0%),13(4.0%)
(difficulty index = 10.5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thetipstersynthesis v 2.1, (c) CosmiC Software 2015-


(*) difficulty index = the average price in probability, based on unit stake, 100% payout percentage

 

[TheBluesBrother]

cosmicsports

I have to take my hat off to you, this is the first post where I have totally no idea what you are on about...

 

[cosmicsports]

cosmicsports

I have to take my hat off to you, this is the first post where I have totally no idea what you are on about...

Hello, how are you today ?
I don't really know if my threads are liked.
Maybe they 're not.
It's not necessary that when somebody writes in a forum his posts are necessarily liked.
But for -what is worth- yesterday's tips kind of worked out.
So it was an honest post, whatever else the state of affairs may be.

 

[dave58]

Hi cosmicsports , I don't think it's a case of people not liking your thread, more that they don't understand what you're saying.
I have to agree I am also confused; I get that you are using tipsters opinions to make your selections, but the bit about finishing for the day has me befuddled. Do you just stop once you're in profit or is it more involved than that. ?
It may help if you tried to explain it step by step, it would be a shame if you have a good idea but no interest in it simply because nobody understands it.

Good luck with it btw

 

[cosmicsports]

Well I explained.
You want me to search for a longer document that maybe exists somewhere ?
When we say "the races are finished" it is a colloquial term used in race courses of the world by punters who made a good score early in the day.
The actual score was 5 or 6 hits out of 14. That was yesterday. Today it can become "the pith of the Danaides" we don't know.

There are issues.
Whereas the method has a certain strength can it become stronger ?
Or could the systematic omission of some races make it stronger ?

There are many software tools if one googles, tackling the issue in various ways.
Problem is there is no comparison study to be found.
I mentioned that to a couple of racing forums but they say "no, this might put as in the midst of business rivalries between the makers of those tools".
While I respect their opinion, it's an attitude that does n't help research.

 

[mick]

I recall buying a book many years ago written by a mathematician "Converging Factors" He used the newspaper tipsters and showed how to profit from the fact that they tip more losers than winners.It was not my cup of tea but i could see where he was coming from.These days i do not follow any tipsters but if you have a race where the majority are tipping the same horse i wonder if this creates an opportunity to seek to oppose because if the tipsters do have a public following then this situation might create value elsewhere in the race. ? Most of my money is placed the evening before ,but on the day Price wise and Hugh Taylor might be examples. ?

 

[cosmicsports]

I recall buying a book many years ago written by a mathematician "Converging Factors" He used the newspaper tipsters and showed how to profit from the fact that they tip more losers than winners.It was not my cup of tea but i could see where he was coming from.These days i do not follow any tipsters but if you have a race where the majority are tipping the same horse i wonder if this creates an opportunity to seek to oppose because if the tipsters do have a public following then this situation might create value elsewhere in the race. ? Most of my money is placed the evening before ,but on the day Price wise and Hugh Taylor might be examples. ?

I also recall a UK tipster service who were working like this.
The man operating it was called Geoffrey and we talked on the phone as well.
But for all my searches I cannot find his website now or even old emails between us.
That was in 2001-2002.

What you say, to oppose the tipsters when they all go for the same horse, needs to be backed by statistical data.
The one statistical parameter that counts is probability.
As I recall the racing post has a mean probability of 16% (or was it 14% ?). If someone had 20% you would be thinking of him as a magician.
The mean probability is an all race figure. Thus if in the first race I gave 40% to the winner and in the second race I gave 2% to the winner then from those two my mean is (0.40 x 0.02) ^(1/2) = 0.089.

The strengths of the tipping sites follows this order:

post-life-timeform-at the races-racing uk predictor machine-at the races predictor machine-oddschecker

Oddschecker copy one or the other I guess rather than work out the races independently, hence they get the lowest coefficient of importance.

 

[mick]

cosmicsports what i was trying to say was do not oppose a majority view just for the sake of it, but when the situation occurs if you can find good reasons to back another in the race then most often you will be buying into a value wager and long term this will prove as important as winners backed.? Other than the two i mentioned i do not know which other tipsters impact on the market. ?

 

[walter]

The man operating it was called Geoffrey and we talked on the phone as well.
But for all my searches I cannot find his website now or even old emails between us.
That was in 2001-2002.



Good to see something different.
Sure the vanderwheely guy used to operate a method that involved tipsters or claimed he did anyway.
Best wishes.

 

[cosmicsports]

The man operating it was called Geoffrey and we talked on the phone as well.
But for all my searches I cannot find his website now or even old emails between us.
That was in 2001-2002.

View attachment 42130

Good to see something different.
Sure the vanderwheely guy used to operate a method that involved tipsters or claimed he did anyway.
Best wishes.

No mine was using the tipsters.
I don't know if he had their approval or not or if he had the approval of most.
But those were pre-internet days really and the phone calls were costly.
So I lost him.
I googled vanderwheely and it takes me to some racing debates.

 

[cosmicsports]

cosmicsports what i was trying to say was do not oppose a majority view just for the sake of it, but when the situation occurs if you can find good reasons to back another in the race then most often you will be buying into a value wager and long term this will prove as important as winners backed.? Other than the two i mentioned i do not know which other tipsters impact on the market. ?

I talked about this before, what gives.
One example of what you 're trying to say was my first race of yesterday.
I opposed the favourite - went for the second favourite - won.