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Football prediction - a new strategy proposal

We all know that our prediction powers in football are limited, when it comes to defeating the bookies.
It's a matter of degree.
I 'm not discouraging people from trying new ideas but it's a difficult task.

The first prediction program I wrote using a scale of strength indices for the teams was in the year 1984 with the Spectrum ZX:


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That was fairly useful.
As I live in Greece I used it as a help for the football pools.
There was no fixed odds betting those days in Greece but in the late eighties I made some connections with Cyprus and I was placing some bets there. The bookies made their appearance in Greece unofficially in 1994, when Greece qualified for the USA world cup. Then officially in the year 2000.

In parallel with this old software app of mine I was using another method.
It was to make the pools systems proposed by the newspapers into a poll by adding them together.
That too was not bad.

Eventually you know what was the best method ?
It was the "reinforced poll". I graduated the various contributors to the newspapers (who were pools agents mostly), discarded those who were not performing well and kept the "top ten".
That was the best method but now I cannot use it because this old format with pools system suggestions no longer exists, as the pools were phased out. I am also finding it difficult to collocate the various tipsters, since they give tips for different matches.

Now the bookies.
The bookies too have done some serious research in order to compile their odds.
They have collaborated with universities.
Among those were Nottingham university, Belfast, Catagna in Italy and the Greek NTUA also some years ago. Maybe more universities.
Their purpose is of course to give as accurate odds as possible so their take off percentage has the efect of making us all losers.

So it's hard lines.
It would be hard lines even if the betting was mutuel and our opponent was not the bookies but the collective intelligence of the public.

But the bookies also have weaknesses.
Their weakness is they attach high importance on the so called "heavy shirts".
For example these days we know that the "heavy shirt" in trouble is Manchester City - you bet against them and you get paid.
In seasons past it was other teams and the world is big, some similar story to that of City surely exists someplace else as we speak now !
There are also teams that all of a sudden become strong and those too pay if we back them.


How to produce an angle - proposal to the forum
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Create a new discussion area, for example "the UK betting forum observatory", with this precise content and purpose. Whoever knows something happening in England - France - Portugal ... will inform the others in that space.
 
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Recently been looking at Poisson Distribution was a predictive method. I've been leaning on Chat GPT and You-Tube to help fill in the gaps to my knowledge and, there has been some progress.

The Y-T video below is a good starting point. No need to pay for it through his patreon account, although it might save time (and he'd appreciate it) as the spreadsheet is apparently there to download. I find it's more worthwhile toughing it out and working things through yourself as it you learn new things and how the maths work.

Kie Millett

The data to be used could be a conundrum. Form Tables Last 4, 6, 8? or the current season Home/Away split?
GPT prefers Last 6 games home/away split as it offers enough data, although small, to give a picture of short-mid term current form.

The other thought was that the Poisson model can be skewed by a funky score-line. The recent 3-6 score might trip up the model, or maybe not, as it is an indication of where Liverpool are and how crazy Spurs are playing at the moment.
 
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Just following on. Tonights game (Wycombe v Huddersfield) in League 1.

Using the Xg stats, within the last 10 weeks, Home/Away split, it indicates a tight, low scoring game, leaning towards Huddersfield. The live market leans towards more goals than the model predicts and the Wycombe's advantage.

Not betting on this one. just showing it for reference purposes.

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Prediction model ranked the 0-1 as the most likely score-line. Betfair was 10.50 v 6.20 so good value.

The match odds for Huddersfield were 2.96 v 2.32 so good value and (BTTS No) was 2.08 v 1.54 as well.


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I think its like every thing else dont bet if you dont know anything about it seems simple but alot dont go through with it.
Yes the bookies know and its not they get it right all the time its they give poor odds so they dont need worry to much about being wrong.
So we have the benifit of thinking for our selfs on a certain game and we know just as much as the bookies do thats why its rare were shocked at the odds showing after studying game.
Take the two semi finals tonight arsenal v newcastle and well tomorrow night tottenham v liverpool.
What do we know about these teams well arsenal have not being doing as good as they would like and with saka out there maybe struggling alittle agaisnt a newcastle team who have found some form of late.
tottenham have had horrendous injury list and its been tough for them up and down but mainly down where as liverpool flying with full squad.
So first thoughts are first game tonight could be tight second game liverpool look certs.
But there two legs to both ties so maybe not as who needs win tonight actually no one does so are they so easy to predict i would say no.
Then you have two teams who are desperate to win this cup newcastle and tottenham i am not sure the other two would worry to much.
So does that change the desire i would say yes i think it does who do they line up for start .
I think its crucial to wait and see the point is no one needs a program to analyse all that its simple follower of football and the odds will predict
both arsenal and liverpool are odds on for there games but are they really value at odds on i would say deffinatly not.
These are unpredictable games and i would not treat them like league fixtures as thats what alot do and there not.
 
I think its like every thing else dont bet if you dont know anything about it seems simple but alot dont go through with it.
Yes the bookies know and its not they get it right all the time its they give poor odds so they dont need worry to much about being wrong.
So we have the benifit of thinking for our selfs on a certain game and we know just as much as the bookies do thats why its rare were shocked at the odds showing after studying game.
Take the two semi finals tonight arsenal v newcastle and well tomorrow night tottenham v liverpool.
What do we know about these teams well arsenal have not being doing as good as they would like and with saka out there maybe struggling alittle agaisnt a newcastle team who have found some form of late.
tottenham have had horrendous injury list and its been tough for them up and down but mainly down where as liverpool flying with full squad.
So first thoughts are first game tonight could be tight second game liverpool look certs.
But there two legs to both ties so maybe not as who needs win tonight actually no one does so are they so easy to predict i would say no.
Then you have two teams who are desperate to win this cup newcastle and tottenham i am not sure the other two would worry to much.
So does that change the desire i would say yes i think it does who do they line up for start .
I think its crucial to wait and see the point is no one needs a program to analyse all that its simple follower of football and the odds will predict
both arsenal and liverpool are odds on for there games but are they really value at odds on i would say deffinatly not.
These are unpredictable games and i would not treat them like league fixtures as thats what alot do and there not.

Well the typical odds are 5% short of being fair (less in the exchanges).
It used to be 12% twenty years ago.
For the losers another factor is at play:
They try to attack the game but they don't think about defense.
That's another matter altogether to what I 've started here but let's discuss it.
Suppose you have infinite money - like Elon Musk.
You have some 500 billion and you want to play against the Mont Parness casino whose fortune is probably a mere 4-5 biliion.
You play craps with the odds against you as by the rules, but you are allowed to bet as much as you want.
Then just because you are infinitely richer after a few hours you will own the casino !
Suppose now that you don't have infninite money, it's the casino who are the rich guys. But you play against them with the
odds in your favour (I don't know how, with the help of a magician, with UHU glue in your fingers, somehow). But you are too aggressive.
Result is you lose, you become bankrupt just like when the odds were negative.
Aggresiveness is an enemy. A good rule is this: Use 10% or your fortune and then again use 1% every time.
If you lose they will only scratch you.

Returning to the original topic, Nottingham Forest are a team that falls into the scheme are n't they ?
2.25 against Tottenham - slided to 1.95. Should have been 1.28.
But how do I know if Sporting Cristal of Peru are maybe one of those that pay these days ?
Eeither way, back or oppose.
It's money lost if they are.
So that's why help is needed.
About Arsenal v. Newcastle and Spurs v. Liverpool I don't think anything strange is going on. I don't think any of those four are
currently overvalued or undervalued in the markets.
 
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After all this talk I fancied Newcastle a little for today's semi against the gunners.
I was about to back them then had doubts then forgot about it then went to pub.
 
Just following on. Tonights game (Wycombe v Huddersfield) in League 1.

Using the Xg stats, within the last 10 weeks, Home/Away split, it indicates a tight, low scoring game, leaning towards Huddersfield. The live market leans towards more goals than the model predicts and the Wycombe's advantage.

Not betting on this one. just showing it for reference purposes.

View attachment 153289

View attachment 153290

View attachment 153291
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Prediction model ranked the 0-1 as the most likely score-line. Betfair was 10.50 v 6.20 so good value.

The match odds for Huddersfield were 2.96 v 2.32 so good value and (BTTS No) was 2.08 v 1.54 as well.


View attachment 153306
Great, but unfortunately I didn't see it
 
Well as i said both odds on werent value.
5.25 bad ?
Well, NC are in sizzling form and were worth it but somehow I forgot.
I must have miissed it because my mind was to hurry up to go out for some errand and to the pub.
I believe Newcastle are to be trusted these days and they will be overpriced.
 
I think your missing what i am saying cosmicsports cosmicsports the both odds on where arsenal and liverpool and i said in this cup they odds are not value and already arsenal beat.
 
I think your missing what i am saying cosmicsports cosmicsports the both odds on where arsenal and liverpool and i said in this cup they odds are not value and already arsenal beat.

I did n't expect Spurs to win.
I did n't like the Liverpool price (1.30).
Was Liverpool's 2-2 draw against United enough to arouse some suspicions ? Maybe.

So you now, are you talking about the odds on prices ?
But if those are systematically lowered then it pays to oppose !
I doubt however this could lead you anywhere. It's not happening, it's not my approach.
I was talking yesterday about the Newcastle price and you can't say 5.25 was bad.
 
i never did say it was bad, i said both odds on prices where bad which meant the odds against where good.
 
With the Spurs v Liverpool game, the market over-reacted because of the recent league result between the two sides (3-6 to Liverpool).

Cup games historically have been different to league games for the big team squads, as this time of year, they can play 9 games in 4 weeks.
 
i never did say it was bad, i said both odds on prices where bad which meant the odds against where good.

Whereas in Arsenal v. Newcastle, Arsenal were clearly overvalued, it's not true the bookies consistently overvalue favourites.
I have a database somewhere with some 300,000 matches in it.
I checked this.
The bookie odds correspond to some probability distribution.
If what you say is true then the true probability distribution should be distorted to some extent, therefore making it profitable or nearly profitable to bet against the odds. This is not true however, it was only a dream.
The distortion likely existed in the football pools. The Italians -and me- knew about it.
But not in the fixed odds betting we do now.
So we look elsewhere.
 
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