• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
  • There seems to be a problem with some alerts not being emailed to members. I have told the hosts and they are investigating.
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting


    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
    Keep safe.
    AR

Converging Factors.

Delboy99

Mare
.... whilst clearing out the drawers the other day, I came across an old copy of Converging Factors written by Promath. These were obviously the days where I used to follow Racing, but alas time has eroded my will to follow and lack of interest crept in. Anyway I was looking at the contents and this appears to be a much different way to arrive at selections. Seems to be a system where Promath makes use of Tipster selections and applies a different type formula. Just wondered if anyone had dabbled with this, and what opinions they held? ;)
 

mick

Sire
Hi Delboy99 Delboy99 I also bought a copy back in the day. After much poncing about i grasped the hang of it but decided it was not for myself. My next buy was Paul Majors Horse Sense and this did prove money well spent. :)
 

dave58

Administrator
Hi Delboy99 Delboy99, this sounds similar to something I bought from Colin Davey donkeys years ago and which used the selection box in the racing post.
It threw up a few winners OK but by the nature of it they tended to be on the short side and he compounded that problem by using an aggressive loss retrieval staking system.
 

Delboy99

Mare
..... so did you manage to get anything out of it? How do you feel it worked. I still have the file on my PC so may yet print it out and have a look if it is worthwhile getting involved perhaps as a pastime or experiment. It looks a lot different from the norm. ;)
 

Delboy99

Mare
Hi @
Delboy99
Delboy99, this sounds similar to something I bought from Colin Davey donkeys years ago and which used the selection box in the racing post.
It threw up a few winners OK but by the nature of it they tended to be on the short side and he compounded that problem by using an aggressive loss retrieval staking system.
... this looks to be an elimination process of combinations of doubles and trebles such as AA AB AC etc until the process goes through the nine combinations and gives the probability of the winners of the races involved. I still have the file if anyone is interested in a read.;)
 

mick

Sire
Hi Delboy99 Delboy99, this sounds similar to something I bought from Colin Davey donkeys years ago and which used the selection box in the racing post.
It threw up a few winners OK but by the nature of it they tended to be on the short side and he compounded that problem by using an aggressive loss retrieval staking system.
dave58 dave58 The converging factors used newspaper tipsters the Bfc and maths. The idea being you could make good use of the fact that the tipsters gave more losers than winners. Its a bit difficult to explain but imo the principles where decent. But it mostly applied to having trebles with multiple selections in each race and i found this unappealing.
 

Delboy99

Mare
..... yes it does look a little involved, but I may still have a read and a further play around with this. It could have possibilities. I quite like to have a dabble at things like this. ;)
 
Last edited:

Delboy99

Mare
.... Is it worth posting a copy on here for reacquaintance of any issues involved, or has it died a death and long gone? :)
 

mick

Sire
..... yes it does look a little involved, but I may still have a read and a further play around with this. It could have possibilities. I quite like to have a dabble at things like this. ;)
I am speaking from memory and long ago, but i did put it into practice for a short while finding the formula for covering the first six in the Fc best suited. What i do recall is that rather than use the post to buy i traveled to the address which was an office above a shop and actually had a bloke hand setting type for a Betting Mag they where involved with. There where two books and they neatly wrapped them in brown paper after i handed over my tenner.
 

mick

Sire
.... Is it worth posting a copy on here for reacquaintance of any issues involved, or has it died a death and long gone? :)
I think i still have mine ( there where two books involved ) but sure why not some may find it interesting. There were no home computers available in those days so combining with same now might prove interesting. EDIT : Just checked and i do still have both books.
 
Last edited:

Delboy99

Mare
..... If there is some interest, I may think know about putting up on the Inner Sanctum, where it probably really belongs. But will wait to see if there is enough interest in this. :)
 

Jackform

Colt
markfinn markfinn, it's all ancient stuff :) but trainers are always of interest IMO particularly when the yard is doing well.

These are a couple fome Tampa By Downs today. Ladbrokes odds from around 09.35.

17.28 no 3 13/8 TM Stidham
18.28 no 8 3/1 Thomas
 

markfinn

Sire
markfinn markfinn, it's all ancient stuff :) but trainers are always of interest IMO particularly when the yard is doing well.

These are a couple fome Tampa By Downs today. Ladbrokes odds from around 09.35.

17.28 no 3 13/8 TM Stidham
18.28 no 8 3/1 Thomas
Morning Jack nice to see you back posting on a daily basis, hope all is well

Trainer form it might be ancient stuff but then there is not much that is new , horse racing is tri-party effort -Trainer - Horse - Jockey

1587806388378.png
Its up the punter decide which one , or which combination is the most important on the day
 

Jackform

Colt
markfinn markfinn, when I was looking for 'converging' factors I used to compile rating is the style of Prof Frank George.

Professor Frank George

The Prof was a top number cruncher of his time (circa 1978). He began by trying for value bets but ended up in 1985 conceding that ‘viable’ bets were a better option. His selection method was to rate the critical filters in the descending order that he advised:

Class
Weight carried
Recent form 1 from the past two outings
Recent form 2 (and I think this is Dowst from 1936 the year of my birth) placed 50% starts with 30% wins.
Distance
The betting market
The going (only noted when it was obviously unsuited for a horse).

There is a lot of other checking to do once the ratings were compiled:
Who is the jockey/trainer?
How long since the horse last raced?
What is the likely starting price?
Is the going suitable?

Quote: ’Additional emphasis is placed on horses which have raced (and won) on the same track before. The track where SF and wins were achieved is also noted, and at what distance and in what going. The age of the horse should be noted in cae it is over or under the best age for the race, so weight-for-age considerations of the Timeform kind can be used’.
 
Last edited:

Jackform

Colt
...and before any novice inquires about Dowst he was the man of the moment in 1936 and was so successful that in the end his methods killed the market - a bit like Pricewise (if you find an edge don't tell anyone :D ).

Dowst
A horse must have won at least 33% of career starts and must have placed in at least 50% of starts.
No bets - slow or heavy going, 2yo, aged 6 or over, no unsoundness such as long lay-offs, up in class.
 

Bertie123

Yearling
I remember reading a copy of that book by Professor George but it only seems to come up with short price favourites again as all those pointers were basically what every punter was doing . I think he said there was a leaning towards non-handicap races with a high speed figure were the best bets, but it didn’t really work for me.
I did subscribe at that time to publication called Futureform . It was compiled by a man in Newmarket who put together all the entries of listed races and group races here and in France and Ireland wat before you could get any of this information in the Racing Post. It brought me a lot of big priced winners for horses that were running in maidens but had future entries in high class races. Really only the trainer and stable connections have that information at that time so it really did give a person an edge. The best but I ever had with Futureform was on a horse called MATINEE. it was a novice hurdler running in the last race at Newbury and had no form and was trained by Merrick Francis. It was entered over the next week or two in the Glenlivet Trophy at Aintree which was a high class race for novice hurdlers.
As I had gone to Newbury I was interested to see what it looked like and wasn’t disappointed when it entered the paddock. I’ve never seen such a splendid looking individual on his toes, shiny coat . So I went down to the bookmakers and it was being offered at 33/1which I couldn’t believe . The price almost put me off backing it but having seen it in the flesh,I did have a good bet on it at that price . It lead all the way and absolutely romped home. Those were the days, but of course the edge has gone now as everybody has that information. Just go to the horses main page on the RP website and click on entries. The listed and Grp races will show if it has any entries. I still check out first time 2 and 3 year olds but if they have entries they are more likely to be 13/8 rather than 33/1. These days I rely on my own speed and ability ratings, firm study and watching re runs of races my possible selection had run in. It takes time and there are no guarantees but at least it gives me a fighting chance.
Looking forward to Racing from tomorrow. Have a good season.
 
Top