Compiling Speed figures.

[TheBluesBrother]

O Outlander

I just sent off an email To the BHA asking them if they are aware of the new race distances changes now in use at Southwell NH from the original BHA measured distances ref June 2015.

Looking at my NH speed figure list, the new changes were first introduced on the 16th March 2020, add to this their official rail movements, I now find I am up the shitty creek without a paddle.

Mike.

 

[Outlander]

O Outlander

I just sent off an email To the BHA asking them if they are aware of the new race distances changes now in use at Southwell NH from the original BHA measured distances ref June 2015.

Looking at my NH speed figure list, the new changes were first introduced on the 16th March 2020, add to this their official rail movements, I now find I am up the shitty creek without a paddle.

Mike.

Try these NOTE I operate in a different way in NH so these are the standards for all actual distances raced over since 2017 including the rail movement.
Hope they are of some help DO NOT ADD A RAIL MOVEMENT TO THESE STANDARDS

Furlongs	Yards	CD Code	STANDARD	Type
15.70​	3453​	Southwell-National Hunt-3453-Chase-	239.97​	-Chase-
15.70​	3453​	Southwell-National Hunt-3453-H Flat-	221.45​	H Flat-
15.70​	3453​	Southwell-National Hunt-3453-Hurdle-	228.30​	Hurdle-
15.83​	3482​	Southwell-National Hunt-3482-Chase-	242.04​	-Chase-
15.83​	3482​	Southwell-National Hunt-3482-H Flat-	223.41​	H Flat-
15.83​	3482​	Southwell-National Hunt-3482-Hurdle-	230.32​	Hurdle-
15.98​	3516​	Southwell-National Hunt-3516-Chase-	244.47​	-Chase-
15.98​	3516​	Southwell-National Hunt-3516-Hurdle-	232.68​	Hurdle-
16.02​	3524​	Southwell-National Hunt-3524-Chase-	245.04​	-Chase-
16.02​	3524​	Southwell-National Hunt-3524-Hurdle-	233.24​	Hurdle-
16.44​	3616​	Southwell-National Hunt-3616-Chase-	251.63​	-Chase-
16.44​	3616​	Southwell-National Hunt-3616-Hurdle-	239.69​	Hurdle-
20.28​	4462​	Southwell-National Hunt-4462-Chase-	313.20​	-Chase-
20.28​	4462​	Southwell-National Hunt-4462-Hurdle-	301.38​	Hurdle-
20.40​	4488​	Southwell-National Hunt-4488-Chase-	315.12​	-Chase-
20.40​	4488​	Southwell-National Hunt-4488-Hurdle-	303.34​	Hurdle-
20.60​	4531​	Southwell-National Hunt-4531-Hurdle-	306.60​	Hurdle-
20.84​	4584​	Southwell-National Hunt-4584-Chase-	322.22​	-Chase-
20.84​	4584​	Southwell-National Hunt-4584-Hurdle-	310.63​	Hurdle-
21.11​	4644​	Southwell-National Hunt-4644-Chase-	326.66​	-Chase-
21.11​	4644​	Southwell-National Hunt-4644-Hurdle-	315.22​	Hurdle-
21.19​	4662​	Southwell-National Hunt-4662-Chase-	328.00​	-Chase-
21.19​	4662​	Southwell-National Hunt-4662-Hurdle-	316.60​	Hurdle-
23.95​	5269​	Southwell-National Hunt-5269-Chase-	373.50​	-Chase-
23.95​	5269​	Southwell-National Hunt-5269-Hurdle-	364.27​	Hurdle-
24.27​	5340​	Southwell-National Hunt-5340-Hurdle-	369.99​	Hurdle-
24.52​	5395​	Southwell-National Hunt-5395-Chase-	383.06​	-Chase-
24.52​	5395​	Southwell-National Hunt-5395-Hurdle-	374.44​	Hurdle-
24.83​	5463​	Southwell-National Hunt-5463-Chase-	388.23​	-Chase-
25.28​	5561​	Southwell-National Hunt-5561-Chase-	395.70​	-Chase-
25.28​	5561​	Southwell-National Hunt-5561-Hurdle-	387.99​	Hurdle-
25.59​	5629​	Southwell-National Hunt-5629-Chase-	400.90​	-Chase-
25.59​	5629​	Southwell-National Hunt-5629-Hurdle-	393.59​	Hurdle-
26.57​	5845​	Southwell-National Hunt-5845-Hurdle-	411.57​	Hurdle-

 

[Outlander]

O Outlander

I just sent off an email To the BHA asking them if they are aware of the new race distances changes now in use at Southwell NH from the original BHA measured distances ref June 2015.

Looking at my NH speed figure list, the new changes were first introduced on the 16th March 2020, add to this their official rail movements, I now find I am up the shitty creek without a paddle.

Mike.

I do see your problem though 2 weeks ago on good ground Issac Wonder came closest to my standards being 0.29 sec slower than standard all the other races more than 4.5 seconds slower than standard , now 2 weeks later same standards every horse on the card smashed the standard by up to 16 seconds ground described as good, either that ground was very fast or something is wrong with these distances

 

[Outlander]

I do see your problem though 2 weeks ago on good ground Issac Wonder came closest to my standards being 0.29 sec slower than standard all the other races more than 4.5 seconds slower than standard , now 2 weeks later same standards every horse on the card smashed the standard by up to 16 seconds ground described as good, either that ground was very fast or something is wrong with these distances

Just realised that HRB didn't include any rail moves in their Southwell results on 1/7/20 so forget what I said in previous post, the rail moves were even bigger than yesterday, the going fast by 0.66 s/f on 1/7/20 this seems extreme for good going and same yesterday, I think they have probably got in a tangle and the distances are all a fair bit shorter than they are reporting

 

[Outlander]

TheBluesBrother
all my sheets are calibrated so good ground produces an average going allowance of 0.00s/f, since lockdown good going at Southwell is averaging 0.7 s/f fast

 

[tacker]

We often read of rail movements on this thread but i didn't realise that the BHA publish them beforehand, of course the do and should, just that i hadn't understood it's the case.
SOUTHWELL TODAY

2m...adds approx 199yds
2 1/2 ml...approx 249yds
3ml...approx 329yds

Just now ATR have mentioned these changes, certainly worth knowing if you're betting.

 

[Chesham]

Great work with your figures TheBluesBrother a d davejb Global Giant was way ahead on both your figures.

 

[Aliantora]

Yeah, excellent work. Imagine my dismay when i realised i hadnt pressed the "place bet" button and found 0 winnings in my account

 

[davejb]

O Outlander HRB usually catches up, but it is well worth checking the BHA results for each track because sometimes the rail moves in the results page is different to that 'forecast' on the morning of the racing - goodness knows how, exactly, a track can report +100 yds for one distance on the morning of the race then decide it was +120 yds when recording the result, but it does happen.
HRB's data feed does make the odd typo, and the winner's time seems to vary from the RP version to Timeform's, as if they copy from both and flip a coin when they differ, which must make Chris at HRB's head spin.

As you say it's well worth noting when a horse is actually running over a noticeably different distance to that advertised - the largest rail move I can remember from the past couple of years was something like 330yds, and I've seen that a few times, even at NH distances that seems a bit excessive.

Dave

 

[Paceman]

O Outlander HRB usually catches up, but it is well worth checking the BHA results for each track because sometimes the rail moves in the results page is different to that 'forecast' on the morning of the racing - goodness knows how, exactly, a track can report +100 yds for one distance on the morning of the race then decide it was +120 yds when recording the result, but it does happen.
HRB's data feed does make the odd typo, and the winner's time seems to vary from the RP version to Timeform's, as if they copy from both and flip a coin when they differ, which must make Chris at HRB's head spin.

As you say it's well worth noting when a horse is actually running over a noticeably different distance to that advertised - the largest rail move I can remember from the past couple of years was something like 330yds, and I've seen that a few times, even at NH distances that seems a bit excessive.

Dave

Other than Southwell yesterday there have only been 5 races where the reported added yardage was 300 or more since the middle of 2016. The largest of that quintet was Wetherby earlier this year in the race won by Jobsonfire. Added yards on that occasion was 336.

 

[Outlander]

Other than Southwell yesterday there have only been 5 races where the reported added yardage was 300 or more since the middle of 2016. The largest of that quintet was Wetherby earlier this year in the race won by Jobsonfire. Added yards on that occasion was 336.

Southwell since lockdown has not been the same as TheBluesBrother highlighted, the going allowances in July have ranged from 0.7 to 0.9 sec/fur fast , that borderline Hard going but the official is Good. To be honest I think the ground is Good and the new distances are wrong.

 

[TheBluesBrother]

To be honest I think the ground is Good and the new distances are wrong.

The clerk of the course at Southwell has been taking the piss with regards to the rail movements, they are very limited to how far they can move the rails due to the AW track.

The BHA never replied to my email about the changes to their official distances.



I just noticed that Dave Edwards has changed the standard times for Tipperary NH.



Mike.

 

[Outlander]

The clerk of the course at Southwell has been taking the piss with regards to the rail movements, they are very limited to how far they can move the rails due to the AW track.

The BHA never replied to my email about the changes to their official distances.

View attachment 86444

I just noticed that Dave Edwards has changed the standard times for Tipperary NH.

View attachment 86445

Mike.

Reading between the lines they have portable fences and hurdles, they have 3 positions for the siting of obstacles , inside , centre and outside, yesterday they were outside , I think the meeting on 14th centre and a think outside on the 1st
But this doesnt change the evidence the going allowances on my sheet were calibrated to zero for good ground and no issues the official going was usually exactly the same as the going allowance, since lockdown good going now coming up with 0.8 s/f fast on average, so the distances were either wrong before or they are wrong now.
Not a big issue just re-calibrate going allowances, but it doesnt give much faith in the accuracy of the data.

 

[Outlander]

I just noticed that Dave Edwards has changed the standard times for Tipperary NH.

Some very radical changes there, over 20 seconds difference to his old standards in some cases

 

[Outlander]

The clerk of the course at Southwell has been taking the piss with regards to the rail movements, they are very limited to how far they can move the rails due to the AW track.

The BHA never replied to my email about the changes to their official distances.

View attachment 86444

I just noticed that Dave Edwards has changed the standard times for Tipperary NH.

View attachment 86445

Mike.

noticed he changed the shocking standards at Tramore NH also , vastly improved standards there now, maybe he was sick of rating Al Boum Photo at 0 when it had ran to 170, he’s increased the 2m 5f chase standard by 20 seconds, that’s much more like it.

 

[TheBluesBrother]

noticed he changed the shocking standards at Tramore NH also

Thanks for the heads up, I hadn't noticed this, I wonder why he has started making corrections now? maybe he looked at the standard times during his furlough time.

Back in June 2015 I gave DE a copy of my universal linear pars after complaining about Tramore's standard times, which at the time were so bad you had similar standards times for both the hurdle and chases, rule of thumb, for the same distances there should be at least a 12.0s difference.

Mike.

 

[davejb]

Other than Southwell yesterday there have only been 5 races where the reported added yardage was 300 or more since the middle of 2016. The largest of that quintet was Wetherby earlier this year in the race won by Jobsonfire. Added yards on that occasion was 336.

Actually a couple more - five this year (Wetherby 11 Jan 1 race, Wetherby 23 Jan 2 races, Southwell two on 19th July. My rail move data only goes back to 2017 and I have Stratford 10 June 17, Fakenham 8 May 2018, and three at Taunton, 2 on 29 Nov 18 and one on 13 Dec 18. It seems odd that the rate of 300+yds moves seems to actually be increasing!

Dave

 

[Cashelman]

Just been tidying my figures up and a notable 2yo performance from Method now my joint top rated 2 year old

 

[TheBluesBrother]

Cashelman

Here's mine...



Mike.

 

[Outlander]

Just been tidying my figures up and a notable 2yo performance from Method now my joint top rated 2 year old

Method has gone clear top in my rankings