About rating Greyhounds

[woof43]

Hello Grant

The times for the beaten dogs are read off the photo finish print and then converted to lengths beaten from that, So actual times at finish.

well that makes it a lot easier and gives a bit of confidence., did you see my file for Newc any thoughts, one thing I do know that Slingshot dog would be a top class performer/group dog here at least to the 460m

 

[The Hare]

Fck Amazon Kindle & Jeff Bezos ....he's rich enough without giving him a % of a couple of quid
Here you go
Winners Guide To Greyhound Racing - Gordon Jones
Dropbox

btw most of this stuff has been freed and is in the public domain

Also have a few other books on the greys
Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox


Don't have much greyhound stuff in the archives although i do have a few "interesting" academic white papers that might interest some of the boys here like Grant & Mike, or anybody else for that matter... usual stuff that academics do ...prediction, biomechanics & running form, efficiency of the markets, bias and so on
There's a boy who works in The University Of Sydney, pretty sure it's the "technology" department.....David Eager....him and his team have done some interesting work using greyhound data mainly studying how greyhounds "run" - the "path following dynamics" paper below is theirs and have several others

Man Vs Machine - Predicting Greyhound Racing
Dropbox

Analysis Of Racing Greyhound Path Following Dynamics
Dropbox

Modelling/Simulation Of Greyhound Kinematics
Dropbox

An Investigation Of SVM Regression To Predict Longshot Greyhound Races
Dropbox

I've put the rest in one folder
Dropbox

Rob

You are a goldmine of information as ever ARAZI91 . Seen some of those books and papers but a lot more reading you have given me!

 

[The Hare]

kevin post a yrs racing for sunderalnd and i'll do a baseline

The attached results since last November for Sunderland, 4 trips are used but 640 not many and 828 hardly any! Newcastle and Sunderland are very clsoe together, about 15 miles and a lot of inter running between the tracks. Some trainers have dogs at both. Two very different tracks though. Sunderland much tighter bends and was redesigned a short time after opening as a licensed track to bank the bends a little but still very much an early ace track. Newcastle is much more galloping, has an old speedway track inside so a greater stamina test.

The race ID just my own date and race number combined. DOB birthday of dog, handicaps as earlier I have added them into the completion time of the race. TFG is the Timeform going for the race, they have a method where they sometimes change it after the first 5 races but very rarely change other than that. GA is the track going allowance. Ran are for less than 6 dog races, as you say field size makes a difference!Age days old dog on day and TF are the ratings Timeform gave the race.

 

[woof43]

The attached results since last November for Sunderland, 4 trips are used but 640 not many and 828 hardly any! Newcastle and Sunderland are very clsoe together, about 15 miles and a lot of inter running between the tracks. Some trainers have dogs at both. Two very different tracks though. Sunderland much tighter bends and was redesigned a short time after opening as a licensed track to bank the bends a little but still very much an early ace track. Newcastle is much more galloping, has an old speedway track inside so a greater stamina test.

The race ID just my own date and race number combined. DOB birthday of dog, handicaps as earlier I have added them into the completion time of the race. TFG is the Timeform going for the race, they have a method where they sometimes change it after the first 5 races but very rarely change other than that. GA is the track going allowance. Ran are for less than 6 dog races, as you say field size makes a difference!Age days old dog on day and TF are the ratings Timeform gave the race.

Thanks mate, so I can pull dogs out of the Newcastle formlines , I will sort something out, it's a busy racing night just starting here now I'll see what i can get sorted

 

[The Hare]

well that makes it a lot easier and gives a bit of confidence., did you see my file for Newc any thoughts, one thing I do know that Slingshot dog would be a top class performer/group dog here at least to the 460m

As you say W woof43 top class. OR1 are the top competitions round the country, recently won at Dunstall Park in Wolverhampoton, 4.74 sectional at Sunderland is top quality, very few near that.

 

[The Hare]

Thanks mate, so I can pull dogs out of the Newcastle formlines , I will sort something out, it's a busy racing night just starting here now I'll see what i can get sorted

Cheers no rush,

 

[The Hare]

Only 6 in the last 2 years gone below 4.80, the previous sheet had Timeform adjusted sectionals, these the raw ones.

DATE

POS

BTN

DOG

TRAINER

DOB

BEND

TIME

SECT

HCP

ODDS

TP

GDE

21/10/2024​

4.0​

0.75​

MINNIES MIRA

E Y Bell

44156

25.5​

1111​

27.76​

4.79​

8.00​

2

A2

01/11/2024​

1.0​

0.00​

LINKS MAVERICK

T C Heilbron

44322

32.0​

1111​

26.65​

4.79​

1.67​

2

OR1

21/02/2025​

1.0​

0.00​

LINKS MAVERICK

T C Heilbron

44322

31.5​

1111​

26.72​

4.79​

1.50​

1

OR

20/06/2025​

3.0​

1.13​

SUNNYSIDE JAYDEN

E Soppitt

45111

32.8​

1122​

27.04​

4.78​

8.00​

2

OR2

27/06/2025​

2.0​

0.63​

DOMINOH HOO HOO

T C Heilbron

45057

28.2​

1111​

27.01​

4.79​

9.00​

6

OR

26/06/2026​

1.0​

0.00​

SLINGSHOT POPPY

B Fairbairn

45210

28.4​

1111

26.48​

4.78​

1.30​

5

IV

 

[nicksar]

I've owned a few racing Greyhounds in the past (but not for many years).
And used to be very well connected to some leading Trainers in my local area in the Midlands.
My very good friend was a "permit" trainer and he looked after my Dogs.
His Son (who was also a great friend) went on to be a contracted trainer at Monmore...and he also became Champion open race trainer in the UK in 2011.
Golden years for me from a punting perspective on Greyhounds.
He quit a good few years ago because in his words" I've just become a Van driver for Ladbrokes".
He runs a very successful dog boarding Kennel now and rents his Kennels to another trainer (who has recently got his license back after a ban).

 

[nicksar]

I'm Slippy was trained by Barbara Tomkins in name only....she had a schooling track local to me and i took lots of Dogs there for a training run...saw I'm Slippy school round a few times it was a great plot tbh...i was a young man myself back then.

 

[Outlander]

Mike here is Newcastle, 480 I have done all three distances will send the other shortly, the long distance only has one or two races so just left that out, machine hit a few dodgy pieces of data, I ran my eye over most columns, didn't apply any real hard and fast filters on the data, just left it so I could see the results, my Par Time would be 29.134

Thanks, Will check this out properly later, tooth issues causing me problems

 

[woof43]

Here is the Sund 450 as with Mike's there are some data issues that need to be deleted in your main files, Date format should also be changed so you don't have txt sitting in a custom function, I cleaned the data from my perspective I wrote code to seperate out the HCP races have a look at this 450 data dump i updated the file to include the 261mtrs will shortly get the middle distance done

 

[woof43]

I've owned a few racing Greyhounds in the past (but not for many years).
And used to be very well connected to some leading Trainers in my local area in the Midlands.
My very good friend was a "permit" trainer and he looked after my Dogs.
His Son (who was also a great friend) went on to be a contracted trainer at Monmore...and he also became Champion open race trainer in the UK in 2011.
Golden years for me from a punting perspective on Greyhounds.
He quit a good few years ago because in his words" I've just become a Van driver for Ladbrokes".
He runs a very successful dog boarding Kennel now and rents his Kennels to another trainer (who has recently got his license back after a ban).

Maybe the prizemoney is a big issue as well, it takes a lot of time an effort training, I mentioned that slingshot poppy, I'd never heard of before, but we have dogs that are of a lesser group class then that dog, running the one turn 450 metre Provincial Cup races never winning a race but still taking home 600k ausd for the yr which is a pretty good incentive, when you don't have to face the competition of the best dogs on City tracks

 

[nicksar]

Maybe the prizemoney is a big issue as well, it takes a lot of time an effort training, I mentioned that slingshot poppy, I'd never heard of before, but we have dogs that are of a lesser group class then that dog, running the one turn 450 metre Provincial Cup races never winning a race but still taking home 600k ausd for the yr which is a pretty good incentive, when you don't have to face the competition of the best dogs on City tracks

The prize money in the UK is pitiful,i know the prize money in Australia is brilliant.I did read one time that a top class Greyhound
in Australia can make more in prize money than a Group One winning horse in the UK.... which is crazy tbh.
Also worth mentioning for those who are compiling figures/Data for UK Greyhound racing it's worthwhile because i know one trainer who is contracted at Nottingham and he told me the salary is really good,and for the first time he no longer need to gamble.
No skullduggery allowed now and that applies to all the tracks.

 

[ARAZI91]

I've owned a few racing Greyhounds in the past (but not for many years).
And used to be very well connected to some leading Trainers in my local area in the Midlands.
My very good friend was a "permit" trainer and he looked after my Dogs.
His Son (who was also a great friend) went on to be a contracted trainer at Monmore...and he also became Champion open race trainer in the UK in 2011.
Golden years for me from a punting perspective on Greyhounds.
He quit a good few years ago because in his words" I've just become a Van driver for Ladbrokes".
He runs a very successful dog boarding Kennel now and rents his Kennels to another trainer (who has recently got his license back after a ban).

You can't beat a bit of info from a genuine "dog" man. nicksar
Had older family members (uncles) that were big "dog" people and they ran and trained mainly on the "flapping" circuit around Central and West Of Scotland. Their main track was Thornton in Fife and Big Harry and his brothers all stayed basically right next to the track so knew everything that was going on. Was a constant battle of wits, but they had been into that game since the 1950's. Harry later admitted that he only got into dog racing to keep him from "going down the pit" as Fife had a lot of little communities around the coal mines.
Back in the day there was a vibrant betting ring despite the obviously lesser class dogs and "shady" stuff going on.
Real bookmakers who would bet their opinion or on whatever they picked up information wise.
Real bookmakers who had to bet to make a living.
Harry and his brothers were still going strong into the 90's running at Armadale and other tracks. Even Shawfield on the Wednesday/Friday "flapping" nights.
When they were going for a "touch" or a "wee lift" as they used to call it ....they always let us know in advance and have been on a few treks as a boy up to Thornton in the 70's, although at the time did not have a clue what all the fuss was about.
One dog "Bluey" was very good and won 11 races in a row. In fact it won one race when it was not supposed too lol
They were always going over to Ireland to see "dugs" lol as they breed the best over there and they were always half cut.
They never worked or fuck all, so relied on betting their own and other peoples dogs.
Wonder what Big Harry Paterson would have thought of the game today ??

 

[woof43]

here is the working for NEWC_480 From it has the wieghtings and slope and intercept the bottom Sund_450 Slingshot Poppy 28.03 at Newc whats its exp time at Sund 450 28.04 *.755574 +5.696092 = 26.874 expected Timings, I will build it further just towards end of night here now