• Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a free 7 day trial of Horseracebase here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Horseracebase so help is always available if needed, as well as dedicated section of the fourm here.
    Best Wishes
    AR

About rating Greyhounds

You talk about systems on the dogs, one of the early ones I bought was the following, wait for the result of the first race.

say it’s 4 beat 1

split your target,

list 1 is 4 from 7 back trap 3

list 2 is 1 from 7 back trap 1

say Trap 3 wins from list 1 you stop , however if trap 6 was second you bet on race 3 is 6 from 7 means trap 1 and so forth
 
Here is an Time _offset table you should be aiming to have high confidence in being able to match performances from cd to cd the problem is always the spread of talent from cd to cd so you need to start just measuring pairs of cd in this example the its taken over a short time period, not straddling seasons etc, From track is HOB461 so the top Q1 shows the avg time of all the cohorts at that track, but also shows the avg time of those cohort that choose to race at another track, during that same time period, then you can see how each group performed at the To track with a measure of time difference and a ratio difference, ratio are very stable, but there is a difference between the top and bottom groups, Time differences always start from different points if you start thinking about it more indepth you start to see the time/Class differences in the different cohorts, Especially if you flipped the From and the TO Just nailing these time differences is so important like at HK it's a mirror image
 

Attachments

  • Tas_offsets.jpg
    Tas_offsets.jpg
    161.5 KB · Views: 7
Winners Guide to Greyhound Racing v3 - Prof. Jones is a good book, available on kindle for a couple of quid. You will need to convert the American grades, etc, to UK
Fck Amazon Kindle & Jeff Bezos ....he's rich enough without giving him a % of a couple of quid :)
Here you go
Winners Guide To Greyhound Racing - Gordon Jones
Dropbox

btw most of this stuff has been freed and is in the public domain

Also have a few other books on the greys
Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox


Don't have much greyhound stuff in the archives although i do have a few "interesting" academic white papers that might interest some of the boys here like Grant & Mike, or anybody else for that matter... usual stuff that academics do ...prediction, biomechanics & running form, efficiency of the markets, bias and so on
There's a boy who works in The University Of Sydney, pretty sure it's the "technology" department.....David Eager....him and his team have done some interesting work using greyhound data mainly studying how greyhounds "run" - the "path following dynamics" paper below is theirs and have several others

Man Vs Machine - Predicting Greyhound Racing
Dropbox

Analysis Of Racing Greyhound Path Following Dynamics
Dropbox

Modelling/Simulation Of Greyhound Kinematics
Dropbox

An Investigation Of SVM Regression To Predict Longshot Greyhound Races
Dropbox

I've put the rest in one folder
Dropbox

Rob
 
Last edited:
You talk about systems on the dogs, one of the early ones I bought was the following, wait for the result of the first race.

say it’s 4 beat 1

split your target,

list 1 is 4 from 7 back trap 3

list 2 is 1 from 7 back trap 1

say Trap 3 wins from list 1 you stop , however if trap 6 was second you bet on race 3 is 6 from 7 means trap 1 and so forth
Pingman Pingman There's one book in my post there that is just basically about this kind of stuff, staking systems and following number sequences within traps and stuff - Fibonnaci sequence / Golden Ratio is sometimes added (and abused) for exotic sounding effect.
 
Fck Amazon Kindle & Jeff Bezos ....he's rich enough without giving him a % of a couple of quid :)
Here you go
Winners Guide To Greyhound Racing - Gordon Jones
Dropbox

btw most of this stuff has been freed and is in the public domain

Also have a few other books on the greys
Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox

Dropbox


Don't have much greyhound stuff in the archives although i do have a few "interesting" academic white papers that might interest some of the boys here like Grant & Mike, or anybody else for that matter... usual stuff that academics do ...prediction, biomechanics & running form, efficiency of the markets, bias and so on
There's a boy who works in The University Of Sydney, pretty sure it's the "technology" department.....David Eager....him and his team have done some interesting work using greyhound data mainly studying how greyhounds "run" - the "path following dynamics" paper below is theirs and have several others

Man Vs Machine - Predicting Greyhound Racing
Dropbox

Analysis Of Racing Greyhound Path Following Dynamics
Dropbox

Modelling/Simulation Of Greyhound Kinematics
Dropbox

An Investigation Of SVM Regression To Predict Longshot Greyhound Races
Dropbox

I've put the rest in one folder
Dropbox

Rob
Nice work Rob, Modelling simulation of Greyhound Kinematics was very good, for Aust. greyhounds the simulation at box rise, how if the Lure is slow at box trip, will cause the crush to the rails is very enlightening, just that angle now has produce a total re-think on a number of different levels, not sure how it impacts UK, I have watched a number of races the replays don't lend themselves to making the same observations.
 
Nice work Rob, Modelling simulation of Greyhound Kinematics was very good, for Aust. greyhounds the simulation at box rise, how if the Lure is slow at box trip, will cause the crush to the rails is very enlightening, just that angle now has produce a total re-think on a number of different levels, not sure how it impacts UK, I have watched a number of races the replays don't lend themselves to making the same observations.
W woof43
Very interesting Grant. Yeah noticed that there has been a lot of interesting stuff come out of Aus in this field which was why i mentioned the boy at Sydney Uni - there is an abstract of a recent working paper that should be coming out soon in the larger folder i put up. That may be of interest.

Regarding the UK i would have no idea but could point you to four or five diehard serious UK greyhound punters who would maybe know.
All of them to a man use the replay as their main information source. Within that area they would be doing split screen time comparisons race to race and accounting for any bias or trouble within the run. Most of them "specialise" and only do maybe 2-3 tracks.
Think the restrictions and banning from the large retail corporates here have hit those type of guys hard though as their big edge was always about getting an early 11-2 or 5-1 about a 3-1 to 5-2 shot.
Guy called Jerry Croxford may be worth a google.


Think there still is a lot of merit in keeping an eye on academia, although i'm well aware that the old "white paper" community has become a very competitive industry now and there is big corporate money at the research table but even if you have no interest in the actual subject matter that is being modeled or studied, it still may generate an idea or two if you look at say "type" of study or methodology used and that then may be applied to your own chosen field of interest. For example there is a ton of literature out there in this space that concerns different rating/ranking methods being applied to various sports. The interest for me lies in not that exact sport but the methods or models used within.

As this thread concerns the rating of greyhounds, there was an abstract put out in 2016 at the MATHSPORT conference in Melbourne by another Australian chap by the name of Anthony Bedford. The one page abstract is down below but iv'e never come across the actual paper.

RatingAusGreyhounds Bedford.png

These days there are tons of these Sports conferences which are a good source for this kind of stuff and they attract mathematicians, statisticians. modelers and performance coaches but the Mathsport people were one of the first and are still going. Most of the papers are available for free as well. Nowadays "gambling" papers are more inclusive and the field of "prediction" has become big business.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for that Rob, it's always good having some reading matter, to be able to sit and think.
Did you have anything relevant regarding field size and track variants, the more you look the more field size touches everything, even in the stuff i posted the Dist offset tables, eI didnt post the Stdev and SE but just the variance or lack of in some data bins created by field size is amazing
 
W woof43
Very interesting Grant. Yeah noticed that there has been a lot of interesting stuff come out of Aus in this field which was why i mentioned the boy at Sydney Uni - there is an abstract of a recent working paper that should be coming out soon in the larger folder i put up. That may be of interest.

Regarding the UK i would have no idea but could point you to four or five diehard serious UK greyhound punters who would maybe know.
All of them to a man use the replay as their main information source. Within that area they would be doing split screen time comparisons race to race and accounting for any bias or trouble within the run. Most of them "specialise" and only do maybe 2-3 tracks.
Think the restrictions and banning from the large retail corporates here have hit those type of guys hard though as their big edge was always about getting an early 11-2 or 5-1 about a 3-1 to 5-2 shot.
Guy called Jerry Croxford may be worth a google.


Think there still is a lot of merit in keeping an eye on academia, although i'm well aware that the old "white paper" community has become a very competitive industry now and there is big corporate money at the research table but even if you have no interest in the actual subject matter that is being modeled or studied, it still may generate an idea or two if you look at say "type" of study or methodology used and that then may be applied to your own chosen field of interest. For example there is a ton of literature out there in this space that concerns different rating/ranking methods being applied to various sports. The interest for me lies in not that exact sport but the methods or models used within.

As this thread concerns the rating of greyhounds, there was an abstract put out in 2016 at the MATHSPORT conference in Melbourne by another Australian chap by the name of Anthony Bedford. The one page abstract is down below but iv'e never come across the actual paper.

View attachment 172711

These days there are tons of these Sports conferences which are a good source for this kind of stuff and they attract mathematicians, statisticians. modelers and performance coaches but the Mathsport people were one of the first and are still going. Most of the papers are available for free as well. Nowadays "gambling" papers are more inclusive and the field of "prediction" has become big business.
It is funny reading all the stuff about predicting greyhound speed, etc etc they provide graphs etc , but what is lacking is the most basic acceleration formula, even for Horse racing try and find any formulas. I have attached a sheet, that was used in the day, we had our fixed timing for all manner of greyhound tracks and could basically work out the split distance just using the finish time over and over for different dogs getting a number of crosshairs to get the distance
 

Attachments

  • acclfct1_LCN.xlsm
    11.5 KB · Views: 8
hello all just found this easy rating system that must years old on a piece of newpaper in my scrap or do i mean crap book anyway here are the rules
look at the finishing time of each dog over the distance as the current race
eliminate the fastest time of each dogs and rank the dogs in order of their second fastest time
do the same on their split times
add together the two figures for each dogsand the dog with lowest figures is the selection
by using the second fastest time should eliminate any fluke and should be more reliable
i must have use it sometime but i could not tell if it found a winner of not
 
So not a lot of interest! Using the sheet above I collect results at the moment only for Sunderland and attach the results a little adapted for 2020 to date. The Going Calculations here are the ones given by the Racing Manger. The trainers have all been checked. The ages are the Computer date number for the Greyhound's Birth date as recorded in Greyhound Bet.

I also had Central Park information up to the first lockdown but not had time to maintain. This is the information you can use to rate the dogs as you please. U find that using the times and sectionals and bend positions are the most important things, along with the class of race.

I have a sheet I have yet to use that took a lot of messing around to calculate goings myself and there are the occasional differences, the problem is working out when the going changes in a specific meeting as it regularly does at Sunderland official ratings.

Kevin
Hey Kevin, in this sheet you provided for Sunderland, I noticed the HCAP, column, are the figures the offset distance like what would 1.04 mean or 1.20, I watched that video that was posted and the guy talked about Sunderland, do other dogs from other tracks feed into the racing at that track
 
W woof43 I’m at the stage where I had a local app but not a public app, one thing I noticed looking at your app for Tasmanian greyhounds is how close the ratings are, not wild differences, mine have much wider spread, I’m guessing that will be a bad thing and I probably haven’t got the ratings well calibrated, I didn’t expect to even get close with my first attempt but I think part of it is i just decided to use best rating of last 8 runs , clearly I need something more sophisticated, I’m not generally a fan of simple averages, takes one bad run where a dog gets interfered with to ruin a simple average approach. I finally got to the stage where I have some kind of rating for every greyhound running in uk tomorrow and their full history of ratings so I guess progress, my HK app didn’t do well today with predictions ,at least I haven’t spent a lot of time on the greyhounds yet.
 
looking at this doesnt seem sensible to use best of last 8 runs, seems to have one standout run of 100 and all the others around 88, wondering what is best practice

selected_namedog_idDateTrackDistanceGradePositionBeaten distanceRunning timeHandicapTrapGoingSectionalOriginal NATIONALrace_keyrating_sourcetodays_allowanceAdjusted NATIONAL
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
15/10/2026​
Newcastle
480​
IV
3​
0.7​
28.94​
2​
20​
4.63​
88.00924​
1251495​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.00924​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
08/10/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
1.5​
28.94​
2​
0​
4.7​
86.85544​
1249916​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
86.85544​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
24/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.9​
1​
0​
4.66​
88.49978​
1246501​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.49978​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
17/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
3​
3.75​
29.03​
1​
10​
4.65​
84.96994​
1244678​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
84.96994​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
10/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.58​
1​
10​
4.57​
100.9719​
1243146​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
100.9719​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
02/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
1.25​
28.78​
2​
10​
4.65​
88.27357​
1241031​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.27357​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
27/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
1​
0​
28.79​
4​
10​
4.53​
88.85399​
1239781​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.85399​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
20/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR3
4​
1.9​
28.98​
2​
0​
4.55​
88.01359​
1238284​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.01359​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
13/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
2​
1.75​
28.89​
1​
10​
4.65​
88.5419​
1236960​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.5419​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
06/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
2​
0.1​
28.87​
1​
0​
4.7​
88.3412​
1235495​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.3412​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
30/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
1​
0​
28.93​
2​
20​
4.65​
85.06354​
1233880​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
85.06354​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
25/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
1​
0​
29.14​
2​
0​
4.61​
82.64743​
1232940​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
82.64743​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
15/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
1​
0​
29.2​
2​
0​
4.55​
78.52711​
1230529​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
78.52711​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
08/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
3​
1.05​
29.14​
2​
0​
4.59​
81.71363​
1229043​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
81.71363​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
30/06/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
2​
2.5​
29.28​
2​
0​
4.71​
76.11619​
1227291​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
76.11619​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
27/05/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
5​
12.5​
29.94​
2​
0​
4.67​
58.3882​
1219476​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
58.3882​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
18/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
2​
5​
29.2​
2​
0​
4.65​
77.97732​
1210812​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
77.97732​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
11/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
3​
4​
29.16​
2​
0​
4.65​
82.82024​
1209448​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
82.82024​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
02/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR3
6​
6.25​
29.23​
2​
0​
4.73​
78.50443​
1206947​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
78.50443​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
26/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
3​
4.75​
28.78​
2​
0​
4.64​
96.83337​
1205015​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
96.83337​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
19/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
2​
28.83​
1​
-10​
4.58​
97.71748​
1203333​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
97.71748​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
12/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.85​
1​
0​
4.69​
94.49306​
1201795​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
94.49306​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
05/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
0.2​
28.8​
1​
10​
4.62​
95.52365​
1200460​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
95.52365​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
25/02/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
29.01​
1​
-20​
4.66​
95.13657​
1198085​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
95.13657​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
19/02/2026​
Newcastle
480​
IV
3​
6​
29.03​
1​
0​
4.82​
88.98219​
1196614​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.98219​
 
Anyone who know anything about greyhounds, this list of top 100 greyhounds 2026, does it make sense are these the best greyhounds, because i have never heard of any of them
I'm a little slow catching up Mike!

I suppose the problem here are the long distance races. Not many of them around nowadays and competitors can be from low grades to your Droopys dog at the top here. Most dogs in these marathons just don't get home or are in to make the numbers up and of a lower level. I know your method and that but with few races to go on caution maybe best. Towcester 500 has the Derby and so should be close to the best runners.

The Star Pelaw sprints are a little worrying? We had a discussion on the Timeform treatment of the Calley sprints with some wild ratings on there even graded races getting rated very highly! Don't know how to cope with the sprint races really as they tend to get well spread out as they come together at the first bend and so distances more spread than the standard trips 450-515 or so. They do have some decent Scottish dogs at Pelaw though but generally the top races aare at Nottingham for sprinters.

Otherwise grade 1 open races are usually what should be the highest ratings or dogs doing well in those races in other opens.
Sustem here is OR1,OR2,OR3,OR then the grades after that though there are often some hot IV races with top dogs in them.
 
looking at this doesnt seem sensible to use best of last 8 runs, seems to have one standout run of 100 and all the others around 88, wondering what is best practice

selected_namedog_idDateTrackDistanceGradePositionBeaten distanceRunning timeHandicapTrapGoingSectionalOriginal NATIONALrace_keyrating_sourcetodays_allowanceAdjusted NATIONAL
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
15/10/2026​
Newcastle
480​
IV
3​
0.7​
28.94​
2​
20​
4.63​
88.00924​
1251495​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.00924​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
08/10/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
1.5​
28.94​
2​
0​
4.7​
86.85544​
1249916​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
86.85544​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
24/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.9​
1​
0​
4.66​
88.49978​
1246501​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.49978​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
17/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
3​
3.75​
29.03​
1​
10​
4.65​
84.96994​
1244678​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
84.96994​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
10/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.58​
1​
10​
4.57​
100.9719​
1243146​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
100.9719​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
02/09/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
1.25​
28.78​
2​
10​
4.65​
88.27357​
1241031​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.27357​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
27/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
1​
0​
28.79​
4​
10​
4.53​
88.85399​
1239781​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.85399​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
20/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR3
4​
1.9​
28.98​
2​
0​
4.55​
88.01359​
1238284​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.01359​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
13/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
2​
1.75​
28.89​
1​
10​
4.65​
88.5419​
1236960​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.5419​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
06/08/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
2​
0.1​
28.87​
1​
0​
4.7​
88.3412​
1235495​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.3412​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
30/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
1​
0​
28.93​
2​
20​
4.65​
85.06354​
1233880​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
85.06354​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
25/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
1​
0​
29.14​
2​
0​
4.61​
82.64743​
1232940​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
82.64743​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
15/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
1​
0​
29.2​
2​
0​
4.55​
78.52711​
1230529​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
78.52711​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
08/07/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
3​
1.05​
29.14​
2​
0​
4.59​
81.71363​
1229043​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
81.71363​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
30/06/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A3
2​
2.5​
29.28​
2​
0​
4.71​
76.11619​
1227291​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
76.11619​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
27/05/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
5​
12.5​
29.94​
2​
0​
4.67​
58.3882​
1219476​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
58.3882​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
18/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A2
2​
5​
29.2​
2​
0​
4.65​
77.97732​
1210812​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
77.97732​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
11/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
3​
4​
29.16​
2​
0​
4.65​
82.82024​
1209448​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
82.82024​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
02/04/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR3
6​
6.25​
29.23​
2​
0​
4.73​
78.50443​
1206947​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
78.50443​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
26/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
OR
3​
4.75​
28.78​
2​
0​
4.64​
96.83337​
1205015​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
96.83337​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
19/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
2​
28.83​
1​
-10​
4.58​
97.71748​
1203333​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
97.71748​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
12/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
28.85​
1​
0​
4.69​
94.49306​
1201795​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
94.49306​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
05/03/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
2​
0.2​
28.8​
1​
10​
4.62​
95.52365​
1200460​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
95.52365​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
25/02/2026​
Newcastle
480​
A1
1​
0​
29.01​
1​
-20​
4.66​
95.13657​
1198085​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
95.13657​
DROMBEGANGEL
650792​
19/02/2026​
Newcastle
480​
IV
3​
6​
29.03​
1​
0​
4.82​
88.98219​
1196614​
national_v2_iter3_shadow_v1
0​
88.98219​
Yes averages are probably not the best way. When looking at dogs there are often ones that can do a freak time if they make a faster than expected start or are too good for the grade they were in and as W woof43 mentions you can have races like these that stand out to fast. Basically usually they get such a clear run and never see the other dogs. That system mentioned by eeyore eeyore of taking a dogs second best run has it's merits in these cases especially!

Also mentioned above are the distance the hare is ahead of the front dog. It is not always the same as mentioned and I have seen the odd race where it gets too close, sometimes these races are voided and watching them you can sometimes see the leader slow down and the rest catch up quickly.

You have progressed very wquickly with these ratings, a great effort. Still none for me 6 years down the line!
 
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