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Win & place bets

Frontrunner

Stallion
Another experiment from me after the failure of daily naps. There is not a lot of change in my selection methods, experiment is more in terms of staking. Most of the selections will be horses that I think will run well but don’t feel so confident about winning, hence I will be putting more on place part than win on these. I will give it a month or so and see how it goes. I will keep a P/L record to BetfairSP (minus 5% commission).

6:00 Wexford - The West’s Awake, 0.2 pt win, 0.8 pt place (3 places)

The gamble on R’Evelyn Pleasure has meant that everything else, including the selection, is on the drift. RP does have a chance but the price of 9/4 looks too short now. There doesn’t appear to be much depth to the race as is often the case with these veterans’ races. The West’s Awake is the only one of these to have won a race within last 12 months, a handicap chase off 1 lb lower than today.

One negative is that in 5 runs since that win his one really disappointing effort was over this CD. He had little chance in the Galway Plate or the Grand Sefton at Aintree, but in between those two races he put in a couple of placed efforts in Grade 2 handicaps. In the Galway Plate, although he eventually finished a long way behind Ben Dundee (8th) he ran well for a long way and as he doesn’t seem to stay further than 2 and half miles, I think he has a chance of turning it around with the favourite over this distance.

Ben Dundee has the class to win this but the fact that he hasn’t won a race for over 3 years makes taking short price about him risky. Alpha Des Obeaux also hasn’t won for over three years. Robin Des Foret won a race for Willie Mullins last year, but is yet to place in 6 runs for his new trainer so he is another with question marks now. Other four runners are running from out of the handicap even if it is only by a pound or two.

Selection is one of the most consistent in this field with a 45% place strike rate over his career, and he has continued to run well by finishing out of places only 5 times from 12 races in last two years. 5 month break since his last run doesn’t appear to be a problem to me as he has run well on his return for last 3 years - 1st of 6 @ 8/1 in 2019, 3rd of 9 @ 12/1 in 2020 & 9th of 24 @ 66/1 in Grade 1 at Punchestown festival last year.

One thing a bit confusing is that they are running him without any headgear (has worn blinkers for last two years and cheekpieces before that) for first time in 3 years, incidentally he won the last time they removed the headgear and in total 5 of his 6 wins have come without any headgear.
 
Nice post

incidentally he won the last time they removed the headgear and in total 5 of his 6 wins have come without any headgear.
makes you wonder why apply HG - had a series of places with various HG and the jockey knows the horse well - its the 1st time he has ridden the horse in public minus head gear - could be the jockeys advice to remove it ? the man in the plate is the ideal man to report on such - good luck
 
Re Head gear or not : Something which took me a few swerved winners to get my head round is that sometimes when a horse has only won with it, running it without is not always a negative to chance, even though this will be the public - pundit view. This maybe down to something as basic as a change being as good as a rest. ? Of course when and where you can reach this conclusion is another matter.!

More to the point good to see you back in action F Frontrunner and best of for this new thread. :)
 
Thank you mick mick

2:45 Newbury - Holly Hartingo, 0.2 pt win, 0.8 pt place (3 places)

Holly Hartingo had 3 of these (Nextdoortoalice, Runwiththetide & Sabrina) behind when winning at 20/1 on her rules debut in December. Of the three behind her, Nextdoortoalice was only a neck behind and is 7 lbs better off so I see her as a big danger, but the other two were well behind and I think HH should confirm the placings with them.

Selection followed that up with an easy win under a penalty, before disappointing (3rd of 4) on handicap debut last time. But the winner had looked progressive with form figures of 11112 going into the race, and also drop to 2 miles probably wasn’t in HH’s favour, over this trip I think she has good chance of bouncing back.

Her 3 week break looks ideal, record of horses who were running within 21 to 25 days is 7 from 56 (9 placed) that improves to 6 from 19 for those priced under 10/1. By comparison, for horses who had last run less than 20 days ago, numbers are poor with 2 wins from 86 (11 placed).

Not confident of a win, as there are a few dangers including Nextdoortoalice who is representing last year’s winning trainer/jockey, but hopefully Holly Hartingo will finish in first 3 at least.
 
This will prove an interesting thread for myself as i tend to stake the boring 1pt win on each of mine. However i do maintain an open mind and also know that one of our members always uses the 25 /75 win - place staking and this works for him. You may have seen mention of the much missed mtoto mtoto who used to describe his staking as a win loaded place same difference but sounds posher. :)
 
Thanks mick mick, it is an interesting experiment for me too as I usually stick to win or e/w. It will have a short life though if my selections continue to run as shockingly as first two haha. Like yesterday’s selection, Holly Hartingo (7.84, 2.82) too was the first one beaten and eventually finished 7th of 11.

P/L - win (-0.4), place (-1.6), total (-2.0)
 
Thanks mick mick, @Sean

2:05 Cork - Rock Of Candy, 0.2 pt win, 0.8 pt place (6 places) @ 7/4, there is no market for 6 places on the exchange so I have taken the sportsbook price

A risky one at a big price, and it’s against a favourite that I have mentioned on ‘Thoughts and selections’ thread before. I had backed the winner in the race that Osraige finished 3rd in on her debut, but Osraige looked certain winner before she threw it away. I said after the race that Osraige would be one to follow next time, so I am going back on what I said but I just feel she may be overbet because of what she did on debut.

So, on to my selection, Rock Of Candy, form of her only run at 2 is actually quite ordinary, no winners (only 2 placers) have come out of it from 21 runs since that race. Selection finished only 8th of 16, but she did go off 6/1 3rd favourite so perhaps better was expected. Her pedigree is not bad, 3 of her 4 siblings to race won a maiden on either their 2nd or 3rd start.

Jessica Harrington has made a good start to the season, and her record in 3yo maidens at this time of year with returning horses is quite good as shown below. Admittedly, 4 of the 5 wins shown in stats below were with horses that had placed on their previous run. But one gambled winner and 4 places came from horses that had been well beaten on their last 2yo run, in addition 5 others finished just out of places in 4th-6th. Latest of these was yesterday, 4th Of 17 @ 18/1 in a maiden at Leopardstown.

8C81C3F6-979C-46F9-9C30-CB2C0F24827A.jpeg
 
4:45 Kelso - Takethepunishment, 0.2 pt win, 0.8 pt place (2 places)

I hope I don’t get punished for backing this, age is a negative on the stats as no horse older than 10 has won this race in its 14 runnings. But it shows positive on some other trends, 7 of the 14 runnings, including last 3, have been won by horses who had run no more than twice under rules. 8 of the 14 favourites have won this.

Selection has a very good record in point to points, having finished in first 2 in his last races. He did get beaten by his main rival here, Frankies Fire, by 2 lengths in a race in November but was returning from a 600+ days absence on that occasion.

His half brother finished 2nd in this race in 2015 (11/8 fav), hopefully he can go one better.

3rd fav Alone No More was 4th of 6 in the last year, and would have a chance if change of headgear brings improvement. Other two are difficult to fancy on what they have shown so far.

You can see I am not very confident despite the short price, but hopefully Takethepunishment will be in first two at least.
 
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