Tony Peach

[Bobajobber]

The work of VDW can be looked at in different ways by different people.
It could be viewed as a jigsaw,and the more you familiarise yourself with the pieces,the more likely they will slot into place.(although not always when you expect it )
The method is still the subject of much discussion,and my question to Mr Peach would be,has he ever thought of creating a 'modern version' of the method,leaving out any possible ambiguities,or hidden meanings,so more readers could actually get on using the method rather than trying to work out what it was all about,or does he feel that this would remove the intrinsic quality of 'put the work in and all will be revealed' that was probably intended by VDW.

Hayzee,

I asked your question,you have to remember that Tony Peach is/was a journalist, the purveyor and although he worked for a company that supplied horse racing books, he actually got the job through his mother, who had a friend that worked for the Sporting Chronicle.
It was recommended by this friend that he would be better starting in the typing pool,so his mother went direct to them and he got the job of taking notes from the typing pool to other parts the plant,opportunities arrived as they struggled for people in other areas, this was the training ground for his craft,until he actually landed the job of arranging the letters page.
My reason for telling you this is Tony was not really horse racing form expert, he was a journalist through and through and on the other boot, he had others creating different ways of using VDW for him to offer up in print, Sad Ken, Jock Bingham and Alan Coldrick(Our very own Jackform),to name but a few.
Tony did not hold back when he told me that he had made an incredible amount of money off the back of VDW, in fact it helped the then struggling Sporting Chronicle, it made a name for Tony at his work place.
I will explain further through other people's questions as they have association to your question.

 

[Bobajobber]

That is a brilliant question by Hayzee, I have looked at VDW & ratings advocated no longer exist , so some(most) use the Daily Mail, I personally wouldnt use the DM to wipe my behind but if I use a different rating method my selections will be different to other peoples, so a simplified version with perhaps a guide for the hard of thinking(thats me) will go a long way to converting many unbelievers
all the best
Larry

I understand exactly what you are saying in regards to the method and longevity and Tony himself did suggest that it was a good idea, but that it had missed its time.
Don't get me wrong, even at 83 he still thought about books and with the odd quip here and there 'that'll make a good book', it's in his blood,that's how he made his living.
His house is situated in the sleepy part of Worsley, a beautiful affluent part of Manchester,known for footballers and celebrities.

 

[Bobajobber]

Hi Bob,

I mentioned this thread in an email to Chesham. His question would be about the Erin Numbers, are they typo errors on VDW's part or the Handicap Book. Also did he realise that G hall and VDW were one and the same?

Kev

Ark,

Every letter was written as instructed to Tony Peach who apart from the first half a dozen or so were conveyed by telephone and noted down by shorthand typewriter, any complex illustrations were forewarded afterwards.
I asked him specifically about the Erin numbers and I even explained that they were not correct, he said it was taken down exactly as informed, I followed up with , would VDW put you straight if made a typo, he said yes, but it was very rare that this happened, but he would confirm what was taken to VDW just in case.

Tony Peach never knew that VDW was G Hall, I will come back to this later, because I have conclusive proof that he never, but I also want to explain what I had done.
Need to go and get some dinner, so I will finish later.

 

[Bobajobber]

Hi Boba

I would ask if he ever asked for proof that VDW had such success with his method.

Chilled,

The truth is no, he never asked, but there are reasons that I will bring to a conclusion later, but for now at least, as previously explain, Tony was a purveyor of information that he was generously rewarded for, he loved his job,but he also believed that what he sold was good pieces of work, he was not in the business to flog tat.
I did say that surely you have to observe what you are selling to your audience,he reminded me that these type of books have been available for many years before he was making them, but he also told me that they must of been good, because many people had phoned him over the years to tell him, he said that he cannot remember anybody phoning up to complain.

 

[Bobajobber]

I had a telephone conversation with Tony some years ago - don't ask me how - I can't remember how it came about. But he told me that he believed that everything we needed to know was in the books and that there was no need to study the examples. I know that many people will disagree with that. I don't know, but I thought I'd mention it.

So maybe you might want to ask him that yourself - i.e. would he advocate studying the examples using the old form books and/or old newspapers?

BC,

You are completely correct and he still reiterates it now, but he bases that assumption on the conversation he had on the telephone with VDW, when ever Tony would ask about this or that, VDW would close him down with " everything is there in the books" the same phrase.
Tony as previously explained was not a form expert and only through many conversations you will begin to realise that he is not,he is an incredibly nice chap all the same.

VDW gave the examples to check against the information he is telling us,he even goes on to tell us about Rope Ladder from 1967, he mentions the horses behind Sunset Christo and even information from the 3 lto races of horses, he tells K Spiers this was the last horse you should of been on,all relative to the form of horses
You may say you get the information for the 3lto races in the newspaper, I will say, but not of all the horses who competed in the race and what they did LTO, but I am not on a change your mind mission, just stating facts.

 

[Bobajobber]

good luck with the trip bobajobber, remember some years back tp kindly sent my contact details to mr spiers, he told me that he had corresponded with van der wheil has the articles had shown

Yes he told me !

He said he has regretted it ever since.

Only joking John

 

[nagwa]

hello bobajobber ..yes ..lol thanks for the information hope the meeting went well..

 

[Bobajobber]

Bob
Please could you ask Mr Peach how Mr Van Der Wheil is keeping and to convey thanks to him for all his efforts.
Downey

Downey,

Tony Peach NEVER ever met VDW and does not have anymore contact with VDW.
In fact, he still believes he is a Dutch man, I asked him, if he has an accent, TP said no
He said that VDW was very graphic in his stories about flying in the Dutch free force, he had explained intricate details about how he had damaged an arm in a bombing raid and that he need to go to the USA for some sort of medication twice a year,TP was taken in by this, but always trying to stay on the correct side of VDW for obvious reasons.
Tony said that it was extremely difficult to squeeze any information out of him, Tony mentioned losing him, which I take to mean that he would close the conversation down to silence and it became difficult to bring him back into the conversation.
Remember Tony was working,so in his best interests he would not interrupt and he found that this was what was needed to continue taking the horse to the well.

I explained that before I received certain information, that everybody already knew that VDW was G Hall, he was not willing to accept that at all.
I then set about uncovering the identity of VDW and showing Tony the clear truth, in a way he did not believe it,I explained that he was English and that he was in did the G Hall that appeared in the original letters.
It took some time to sink into him,I mentioned that he had a lot to thank G Hall for,as well as a comfortable living, but he set the ball rolling.
A wry smile came to his face and he said " that would make a bloody good book that"........... Never off duty really.

Even though I asked him if he knew VDW it was easy for me to fathom out before I asked the question.

One letter from 1989 with address and signed Che Van Der Wheil
Two letters from 1996 signed Che Van Der Wheil

I did convey your thank to Tony, he said that it was very much appreciated and thanks.

 

[Bobajobber]

Bobba,

I suppose it depends on how one looks at the word anomalies, but for me and judging by many of the post on VDW forums there are many anomalies in the literature. If there wasn’t would there really be any need for said forums?

Using the definition shown below the whole SIAO article is an anomaly.

A term describing the incidence when the actual result under a given set of assumptions is different from the expected result. An anomaly provides evidence that a given assumption or model does not hold in practice. The model can either be a relatively new or older model.

Using that article and following the logic 30% of the previously claimed winners FAILED to be found using the article, so how can it have the title SIAO? So my question to ask Mr Peach, his answer to this was, and did he even know?

Another use of the word is “Deviation or departure from the normal or common order, form, or rule.”

This involves the ability rating when it was introduced it clearly states it is usually unwise to stray from the top few. Did Mr Peach make any effort to find reasons why some selections were a long way off the top few, again did he even know? While I appreciate the a/rating is only a guide, but if it is an accurate guide logic also says it would be unwise to ignore it. Especially when VDW went out of his way to say class/ability is the kingpin of the logic/method.

An unexpected, unusual, or strange condition, situation, or quality.

Here I would ask why after so much work and effort was put into finding the actual wining % for the form figures why wasn’t it given more importance in the methods? Am I the only one that finds that strange, or did Mr Peach ask the question?

Be Lucky

Mtoto,

I asked Tony how he paid VDW, he took quite some time to think of the answer, I said was it cheque, he continued to muse over the answer, then all of a sudden he said "NOTHING", I said what?, he said as far as I can remember, we paid him nothing, he said something may of been sent,but not specifically anything that he can remember.
But I believe he may of received something from Raceform, it may well of been in the VDW name and maybe he has it kept as a momentoe.
A good and valid question nonetheless.

I am completely at sorts with your other question, but let me reiterate something once again and then tell you what we both agreed about your anomalies .
Tony Peach as previously explained was just the purveyor, he found it very difficult to question any part of the VDW work and was scared that if he did, the VDW would close all lines of communication down.
So I went to the trouble of explaining to Tony, what I believed Tony would do.
I said as follows.
I believed that all you did with VDW work was to communicate with VDW and he would tell you word for word exactly what he wanted conveyed and used your shorthand typewriter , you then transferred to a normal typed sheet and you would lay it out neatly, he nodded his head yes as confirmation.

I then set about asking TP your question of anomalies, first of all, he said that he had never really settle down to breakdown the examples offered up, he said that he would occasionally settle down to look at the last three races, but he never bothered to look at any examples.
All he did was to look at a few races and the the commentary on the last two furlongs,which was offered up in the golden years,but by and large it was just a cursory look.

We believe it is more of an opinion than an anomaly and TP agreed it could be seen as that,I have never seen anybody draw the same conclusion as yourself and I certainly do not believe they are anomalies as you see them, apologies if this has not found your answer.

 

[Bobajobber]

Bobba
Got to hand it to you, you are a tireless worker and a man of your word. I'm sure I speak for all when I say that you deserve our highest admiration for all your time and effort you put in.
Thanks
Downey

Downey,

Thanks but it is not necessary, there are many questions or opinions banded about VDW or Tony Peach in forums all over the Internet, the best tool for opinion is facts, most of the opinions about these two fellas do not carry any facts at all, some facts are difficult to get hold of now, but the easiest thing is to approach and ask.

So hopefully it has laid a demons to rest.

 

[Bobajobber]

Looking forward to the answers, hope you weren't disappointed'

Chilled,

In a way I am disappointed,my sole intention was to meet Tony and shake his hand, irrespective of all the negative jibe and opinion, you have applaud his sterling effort to entertain,so that was nice to of done.
But my second reason was to try to see or purchase, the original VDW letters, as it turned out, the early letters would of been extracted of the info,probably archived for a small while and then dumped, the reason is you have to remember it is right at the beginning of VDW , where the fascination was not seen until much later, TP told me that he may of flogged them on years ago, but could not recollect in doing so, the letters after that were conveyed over the phone as mentioned earlier, but I am puzzled why VDW sent the two in 1996.

I understand why he sent the one in 1989 as it had a copy of systematic betting with it,as he tells TP that he thought the idea of SB had been scrapped he waited so long and 6 had arrived on his doorstep.

So a bit of a head scratcher,but a nice day out after all that.

 

[nedloh]

excuse me but as far as I can see VDW never existed -just a dream
sorry if I offend
keep the dream alive
this has more twist and turns than who shot JR

 

[hayzee]

Thanks Boba,got to admit it does seem curiouser and curiouser,leg end or leg pull,just off to consult my Guru,Tuesday Lobsang Rampa

 

[ArkRoyal]

Great posts Bob. Sound like you enjoyed the meeting, shame you couldn't get hold of any more letters.

 

[chilled]

Thanks for the feedback Bob, I think we knew more than Tony.

Good to know how it came about, thanks.

 

[Bobajobber]

excuse me but as far as I can see VDW never existed -just a dream
sorry if I offend
keep the dream alive
this has more twist and turns than who shot JR

VDW does exist, he is 82 and although he is being cared for, he still has a few years left in him.

The reason for explaining to others that TP never actually altered any of the work,was to point to all followers who at one point or the other, may of believed that TP had a chopped and changed any of VDW's work.
It just is not true, as explained TP was in fear of losing the communication, to confirmed this even more, identified several parts were the grammar was incorrect and I said surely, you can see them errors, he said that he wrote them exactly as given.

 

[*tom*]

Bobajobber, very interesting stuff, thanks.

 

[mlmrob]

An excellent piece of work Bob, nice one.

 

[wee les]

its good that a little light has been shone on this a well done bobbajobba

 

[mlmrob]

Hi Enoch. Ain't seen you for a while. Are you going revive the VDW thread. Always interesting your take on things.