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Time to give up after almost 20 years of gambling?

richdeniro

Yearling
Bit of a long post and not meant as in a woe is me kind of way, just started typing and wanted to put it down on paper. Am sure there are a million posts like this all over the internet but maybe it will be cathartic.

I have been gambling/trading on Betfair since 2005 and recently requested a deposit v withdrawal statement which showed that I have lost a little over £40,000 since then. It has put into perspective just how hard it is to make any extra money on the side and am, not for the first time, thinking it really is time to call it a day.

I guess a £2-3k loss every year isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things and was probably just about the amount I could afford to lose but added up it equates to well over a years salary which makes it all the more depressing especially as I fell hook line and sinker in hoping that gambling might be the golden ticket to making a little bit extra cash that might give me a slightly better quality of life.

I guess that's the reason most of us get into gambling really, the hope of being the 0.1% that actually do make money. For me I have always been fairly unremarkable I guess, live and work in London in a fairly average job always in the 25-35k mark and with no real creative talent or the extroversion or confidence to make much of a career - personality type is INFJ so I am very aware of my flaws and also fairly cynical of the working world having spent almost a year unemployed due to the financial crash and worked for pretty bad employers. I guess gambling/trading gave me the same hope that the lottery has but that it felt more realistic a dream to stumble across some sort of system that might get me out of my one bedroom flat and into being able to own my own home and not have that permanent worry about money. My brother also has severe mental health issues and was effectively made homeless by the coalition government when the austerity cuts hit for a few weeks in 2016 which made me double down on my efforts as I never wanted my family to go through that again so sought to try and make money to deal with that.

But after 20 years and now in my mid-40s, I've read almost everything there is to read about systems, I've paid tipsters, invested in automated betting software, trying spread betting on IG and countless other things I haven't even come close to making the money I lost back in order to break even.

Is it completely hopeless? Has anyone ever made it work or successfully made back a massive chunk they have lost over the years? Or even just stumbled across a system that works for them after many years? At the moment I've resorted to putting anywhere between £2 and £10 on ridiculous 20 leg accumulators in an attempt to win my money back which seems ridiculous and is just increasing that losses figure.

Can anyone recommend any other way to make a decent amount of cash every month? I'm not a shirker and always happy to put the graft in but everything just seems impossible - I've tried dropshipping, buying and selling at auctions, share trading, doing things on fivver, etc but after almost two decades of trying am now thinking I should just accept that this is my lot.
 
Bit of a long post and not meant as in a woe is me kind of way, just started typing and wanted to put it down on paper. Am sure there are a million posts like this all over the internet but maybe it will be cathartic.

I have been gambling/trading on Betfair since 2005 and recently requested a deposit v withdrawal statement which showed that I have lost a little over £40,000 since then. It has put into perspective just how hard it is to make any extra money on the side and am, not for the first time, thinking it really is time to call it a day.

I guess a £2-3k loss every year isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things and was probably just about the amount I could afford to lose but added up it equates to well over a years salary which makes it all the more depressing especially as I fell hook line and sinker in hoping that gambling might be the golden ticket to making a little bit extra cash that might give me a slightly better quality of life.

I guess that's the reason most of us get into gambling really, the hope of being the 0.1% that actually do make money. For me I have always been fairly unremarkable I guess, live and work in London in a fairly average job always in the 25-35k mark and with no real creative talent or the extroversion or confidence to make much of a career - personality type is INFJ so I am very aware of my flaws and also fairly cynical of the working world having spent almost a year unemployed due to the financial crash and worked for pretty bad employers. I guess gambling/trading gave me the same hope that the lottery has but that it felt more realistic a dream to stumble across some sort of system that might get me out of my one bedroom flat and into being able to own my own home and not have that permanent worry about money. My brother also has severe mental health issues and was effectively made homeless by the coalition government when the austerity cuts hit for a few weeks in 2016 which made me double down on my efforts as I never wanted my family to go through that again so sought to try and make money to deal with that.

But after 20 years and now in my mid-40s, I've read almost everything there is to read about systems, I've paid tipsters, invested in automated betting software, trying spread betting on IG and countless other things I haven't even come close to making the money I lost back in order to break even.

Is it completely hopeless? Has anyone ever made it work or successfully made back a massive chunk they have lost over the years? Or even just stumbled across a system that works for them after many years? At the moment I've resorted to putting anywhere between £2 and £10 on ridiculous 20 leg accumulators in an attempt to win my money back which seems ridiculous and is just increasing that losses figure.

Can anyone recommend any other way to make a decent amount of cash every month? I'm not a shirker and always happy to put the graft in but everything just seems impossible - I've tried dropshipping, buying and selling at auctions, share trading, doing things on fivver, etc but after almost two decades of trying am now thinking I should just accept that this is my lot.
Seems as though you realise that “systems” are not the answer I don’t know of anyone who can prove that they can supply consistent profits - the ones that can will have a massive understanding of racing in which to base their ideas upon. The problem is there are so many claiming this and that , but are only actually bolstering their own accounts with fees charged to others . Difficult but as the adds say “ when the fun stop’s - stop” you don’t want to chasing bad ideas with good hard earned money.

Good luck to you with whatever you decide to do in the future / ultimately the answer is , if all those charging for advice were any good why are they seeking to charge others.
 
Richdeniro , it's a shame that you have been a member of this forum since 2017 and never actually felt minded to ask for help with your gambling as there are several people here who make regular profits from various different methods, proved it over the years, and are more than happy to share with others.
Some use form study, others stats and others (including myself) systems - most of us have results going back years.
Why not try deciding what approach interests you the most and follow some threads on the subject without actually putting any money down - ask questions until you are happy that it does actually work .
 
without actually putting any money down - ask questions until you are happy that it does actually work

This right here is key, I have been doing this years and years and though I do make a little here and there, I am still constantly learning new methods, new ways to attack the markets, new angles to get into a race, there isnt an answer to the question "how do I make money" things work differently for different people.

I could show you how to make money by betting on corners in-play .. but would you be willing to sit and watch a computer screen for 18 hours a day waiting for the right opportunities?

I could show you tipsters that make money by value betting days and weeks in advance, but could you sit online for 18 hours a day and wait for them to ping a bet into a chatroom ?

If it has taken you 20 years to drop 40k, then there is not going to be a way to win back 40k in 6 months .. its going to be a long, long hard slog, you are going to need a few thousand for a betting bank just to get started and then your returns are going to be small chunks, with upswings and downswings along the way.

Putting more money into what you are doing right now is not the answer. you have long term records that prove that you will not make any money back doing what you are currently doing.

Start with what hours you have available, what sports do you like to watch, what sports do you have knowledge of, are you actually doing research when you make a bet or just thinking it sounds good, so lets go with that ...

e.g. if you think Haaland to have two shots on target @ 2.0 is a good bet ...

you need to not place the bet, but first bring up[ haalands last 10 games, in those 10 games how many times did he have two shots on target ... if the answer is between 1-3, then the bet is awful value, if the answer is 4-6 then the price is actually probably about right, if the answer is 7-10 then its likely to be a value bet so worth investing 1% of your betting bank on that stat.

If you dont know WHY you are having a bet and if the odds on offer are good value, then dont have the bet.
 
I've resorted to putting anywhere between £2 and £10 on ridiculous 20 leg accumulators in an attempt to win my money back which seems ridiculous and is just increasing that losses figure.
..... does the answer not hit you between the eyes in the above highlighted sentence? You aint gonna win putting on large accas. It is hard enough getting just one team to win, but large accas are just giving money to the bookie. I really do feel sorry for the position you are in, but packing in is not the answer either. You need to draw up some new battle rules and just see where you are going and what you are and are not prepared to do. There are some good systems around and handled with care will have you travelling in the right direction. Foe example what is your major sport? Do you have a favourite? Steve Davidson at winningmore.com has some decent systems around for those willing to have a level head and not look to become rich overnight. The slower plodder gets there in the end with a bit of self control. ;)
 
Sorry to hear about your struggles, Rich. I can tell you now there is no fix, no magic formula, or system, that can instantly win you substantial amounts of cash in this game. It’s all about hard work, learning your trade, hitting an achievable ROI, and backing yourself. The best advice I can give you at this point is to take some of that money you’ve been gambling and spend it on yourself instead. Also, if you ever fancy a day at the races let me know I’ll get you an owners ticket for when one of my horses runs at Kempton or something so you don’t have to travel too far.
 
Hi R richdeniro - sorry to here about your current state of affairs.
By you're coming on here, I don't think you are ready to quit even though your post says otherwise.

Firstly you now need to stop and step back from the game for a spell.
Your head is probably spinning so you need time to get a level head together - essential for gambling.
Get yourself a decent sized betting bank together.
When you return to the game, bet level stakes every time, don't lump on rank odds-on shots - they get turned over at an alarming rate.
You put the same amount on a 1/2 fav or a 50/1 outsider.
Your stake must not be too big or you'll blow the bank in no time.
I'm trying to get to a stage where my bank size is 1000 times what my stake is.
I have not reached that milestone yet - bank not big enough yet, but it gives you a BIG cushion to ride out long losing runs, and keeps you from getting stressed during that period.
We all have long losing runs - I do anyway. It's a gambler's (though I prefer investor) nemesis.
( IMO a gambler would bet on two flies climbing up a wall - an investor wouldn't.)
They pop up all too frequently, (losing runs I mean) and there are MANY occasions in the past where I have given up the ghost, only to discover - sometimes only a matter of a day of two later, that had I carried on, would have been on a big priced winner that would have returned all losses.
Not by lumping on mind, just by staking the same level stake.
It's obvious you have lost your confidence - get that back first, get your bank together next, get a betting angle together - plenty of ideas on here, and then off you go again, and don't lose your nerve or go off the rails in the process and you'll be alright.

:handgestures-thumbup:
 
Bit of a long post and not meant as in a woe is me kind of way, just started typing and wanted to put it down on paper. Am sure there are a million posts like this all over the internet but maybe it will be cathartic.

I have been gambling/trading on Betfair since 2005 and recently requested a deposit v withdrawal statement which showed that I have lost a little over £40,000 since then. It has put into perspective just how hard it is to make any extra money on the side and am, not for the first time, thinking it really is time to call it a day.

I guess a £2-3k loss every year isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things and was probably just about the amount I could afford to lose but added up it equates to well over a years salary which makes it all the more depressing especially as I fell hook line and sinker in hoping that gambling might be the golden ticket to making a little bit extra cash that might give me a slightly better quality of life.

I guess that's the reason most of us get into gambling really, the hope of being the 0.1% that actually do make money. For me I have always been fairly unremarkable I guess, live and work in London in a fairly average job always in the 25-35k mark and with no real creative talent or the extroversion or confidence to make much of a career - personality type is INFJ so I am very aware of my flaws and also fairly cynical of the working world having spent almost a year unemployed due to the financial crash and worked for pretty bad employers. I guess gambling/trading gave me the same hope that the lottery has but that it felt more realistic a dream to stumble across some sort of system that might get me out of my one bedroom flat and into being able to own my own home and not have that permanent worry about money. My brother also has severe mental health issues and was effectively made homeless by the coalition government when the austerity cuts hit for a few weeks in 2016 which made me double down on my efforts as I never wanted my family to go through that again so sought to try and make money to deal with that.

But after 20 years and now in my mid-40s, I've read almost everything there is to read about systems, I've paid tipsters, invested in automated betting software, trying spread betting on IG and countless other things I haven't even come close to making the money I lost back in order to break even.

Is it completely hopeless? Has anyone ever made it work or successfully made back a massive chunk they have lost over the years? Or even just stumbled across a system that works for them after many years? At the moment I've resorted to putting anywhere between £2 and £10 on ridiculous 20 leg accumulators in an attempt to win my money back which seems ridiculous and is just increasing that losses figure.

Can anyone recommend any other way to make a decent amount of cash every month? I'm not a shirker and always happy to put the graft in but everything just seems impossible - I've tried dropshipping, buying and selling at auctions, share trading, doing things on fivver, etc but after almost two decades of trying am now thinking I should just accept that this is my lot.
Ok blunt talking here, also been betting on exchanges for 20+ years, fact is in the early part of those 20 years there were angles and inefficiencies in the markets , over the years the markets become more and more efficient , if you have been playing all that time and made a loss then that is not going to turn around when it is now so much more difficult.
Compared with the early days there is virtually no mug money and any that does exist it’s instantly gone. Spend your 2-3 k a year on something else is my advice.
I can tell you even if you were successful you would be struggling more and more each year anyway by now.
 
Hi R richdeniro first off i was rather surprised to note that having joined this forum in 2017 your above was your first post. We have members who share a wealth of experience but you will only get the best from it by interacting with them. The positive i take from your post is that you are owning the problem and if nothing else this should prevent matters becoming worse, and as we can all read it can for too many others. I note already some well intentioned advice above with Alien Alien post being a good example.

After 50yrs involvement i can confirm that it is possible to make worthwhile money from horse race betting but the apprenticeship is long hard and never ending. Re your current situation the very best advice i can offer you will not like, because it would be to stop betting for at least a year. This would include any fun or interest bets for where is the fun in continuing to lose money on balance which would be the likely outcome.

Use the time to find a niche area of interest which will enable you to spend your available study time attempting to learn more about less, and if or when you feel your investigations could prove profitable then paper proof the future selections for a lengthy period before even contemplating returning to risking your money.

Starting a thread on this forum would be a good way of implementing the above, as encouragement and support may be forth coming. Imo the biggest edge we punters have is that no one can force us to bet, indeed i would suggest that knowing when not to bet can prove half the job.
 
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R richdeniro I had years of losing money, though nowhere near to the extent of yours, and decided a couple of years ago to just stop, and started searching for angles. (the exception being when going racing spending money I can easily afford).

In pursuit, I posted all kinds on here, combined by own ideas and then as others say some superb input and interaction with other like minded, experienced posters. I think if you post a few ideas and angles on here, you will get constructive advice, but be prepared to be challenged and be prepared to respond to those suggesting alternatives.

I'd also not be taken by those posting in various places online with those accas with one remaining and believing its a way out. Fake slips aside, a lot of them will have burned endless pots of money chasing losses.

I am still not betting and am in no hurry to do so. I'm getting more fun from trying things knowing I will break even than blindly losing.
 
R richdeniro ,

I'd think you have spent more than most punters in UK, but , are in the majority of us, who lose.
As a gambler, all I can suggest is

Be a selective gambler.

Unless you are a full-on systems punter, there is no need to bet every race, or even to bet every month.
If it ain't there, don't try to find something inferior. Let it be, till you feel really confident.
Then, don't put the house on it, but, just take it easy with a good bet at a decent price.

Finding Order is key to all science.
This is probably an impossible mission as there is no perfection. We humans invent things to try to put order on a chaotic world.
This is because we have to believe in something.

Scientists spend decades changing their theories. Then when they are retired and gone, younger ones come along and do the same.
A state of flux; there are few constants ( though we all like to think we've found one or some).

In horse racing, one factor is biology.
.
Because of the complexity of living bodies, this is the most imprecise of all the sciences. Other branches of science are able to be far more definite than can biologists. Mathematics is sometimes too precise for biology.
Biologists have to guess and assume far more than other disciplines. That's why it takes seven or more years to qualify as a vet. Any vet will tell you that there are no guarantees.

Humans never stop learning, but are all prone to guessing and assuming. It's a coping mechanism.

Finally, I can't understand why you didn't write in earlier. I really hope this isn't something sent in by Chat shat box or something, just to gain quick tips for an organisation. :D
I shouldn't think it is, but, as a poor gambler, I can say that I just don't know.:)

Be selective for the time being. Selectivity may help. Your decision, of course.
 
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pulled this from another thread

Most business’s operate at a far less profit margin than we would imagine and if you could make 30% on profit yearly turnover most bosses would be ecstatic – most operate at profit margins no where near this figure (obviously turnover plays a part) – but ask most casual punters for £10.00 with the promise that if Horse A wins you will get returned £10 + £3 and if it loses you get back £0 – most will not take you up on the offer.

In order to know if the expectation can be achieved we need certain ingredients or tools to help us with the project

Record Keeping

Bank

Selection Process

And finally more Record Keeping

What comes first ?, all are essential but without record keeping the punter is doomed to be always guessing.

What records to keep – we will have different ideas but I would say the min would include

Selection – Value of Bets Struck – With Who – Value of Return +/-

I order to prove this ,at least to oneself and in reality you are the only person who really matters, if we cannot face the truth or continue making excuses and accidentally forgetting to include the losers or topping up the float,the project is doomed from the start.

There cannot be many souls that set of down the punting road believing they that they are going to chance their arm and lose money, we all believe we are going to win. After a few unsuccessful attempts most will seek advice and be told or read" what you need is a betting bank - a lump of money that if it disappears it will not affect your way of life"- it's money that you can afford to lose, and you carry on losing because subconsciously they have written of the bank and if not careful are now in a double bind, punting and saving for a new bank.

Consider 100 point or even 1000 point bank whatever? - New complete bank set to give 100 - 1 point bets or whatever size you decide upon cushion - The first day in you bet 10 point's only regaining 6 points in winnings ( ignore returned stakes for this eg) Is the bank now 96 points or has it lost 4 points ? this where the mind games start are you + 96 or -4 ?

For me you have to consider it to be -4 you are now holed and have leaked 4 points - your next step is crucial, you need to repair the hole,repay the deficit and hope fully grow the bank - there is no rush and there are no bookmakers rule that states you have win it back in the same manner that it was lost.

Just because it’s not every day money, it should not be disregarded , how many times do we hear"I am Ok ,still within the bank "if the punter is to be successful the bank must be constantly nurtured and sent in the correct direction ,with alarms and alerts set at certain points 25% / 50%? where ever you want but there is little point getting down to 10 and panicking

I like graphics, and for most people pics etc are easier to read than figures - so imagine the total new bank as the neutral axis that you never want to be below - hopefully we all will be above or at least level , but in order to train good mental habits the bank should be viewed as base camp - the funds in there are for initial stakes and emergencies and once they start to be depleted its time for a rethink and possible even reverse for a while.


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Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
 
Yeah I spoken to a lot of people of the years who are in the same mind as R richdeniro it is a very hard game like pete pete I could but you onto stuff but the time is the one personally these days all my bets are alert based or put on up to 7 days in advance with my value u2.5 bets. But been in your position many times do I give the game up completely then I think of the time invested in betting and I could have been a brain surgeon with the time I have put to the game lol it is hard nut to crack but it can be cracked. Good luck 🤞
 
Alot of brilliant answers there for you to not chase and relax and have fun because believe it or not 10 team accum is chasing wither you believe it or not.
if you had to bet every day for 20 years your only lossing fiver a day roughly so not end of world, but it also means you have not had one winning day ever wish is near on impossible and means you are not learning any thing at all.

Now for my advice when i worked all my life i alwyas loved horses betting, and football, and golf, but my main passion was horses.
I do study and look at form on horses football and golf.
But i was working near 7 days a week so was tired alot and less time so had some good days odd brill day and alot of rubbish days but all fun as the study was the fun.
But i also did throw money away at times on over bets which where in hind sight chasing alittle.
As soon as i stopped working and could not afford to throw that extra money away as i need what i have never mind the getting money back thats a dream.
I started to look at my betting differantly not to stop fun as i still study, but to think of ways of not lossing and thats when i started betting smarter
Ever day i have my money on i am exspecting not hoping to have returns ok i might still loss a little on days but the wins dont need to be big to cover that and on winning days they do tend to be better than lossing days so i make profit its not alot but i have stopped the rot of lossing days building up to lossing weeks to lossing months.
The answer is think deep about how to have fun and enjoy what is your past time and not loss money .
Its not going to make you rich so forget that is first point but will not make you poor either.
Lets take the three sports i mentioned start with horse racing in stead of betting treble bet three singles thats it even the three to place singles.
in golf instead of betting three to win tourny bet three singles to make cut.football instead of betting 10 team accum. bet 5 doubles there only ideas but you will be amazed how your not lossing much if anything. Your fiver a day 35 pound a week might be still sitting at 33 sunday night.
Then now think how did i loss 2 quid this week and slowly turn it in too 2 quid profit a week.
Oh this is fun still betting and winning. Just remember betting and breaking even is good betting and showing any profit is amazing.

Just think we all have said it we watch our baby taking its first steps and we all cant believe it and smile amazing amazing we shout with joy.
What that baby done was the same as just about every other baby born it watched and looked and learned and listened to what others done and it become natural to just do it.
Other clue if i gave you one million pound and said bet it on one thing and if it wins you get the profit and i get my million back.
The first thing you would think is your terrified to even bet it as its your one chance to get money and not want to loss so you would wait and wait till you have the right bet.
then you would wait some more then even putting the bet on you would be panic stricken till it won or lost beacuse there is no cert no matter odds . But if i said to you its ok what you can do is keep the million for a year in account and bet slowly for year differant bets you would have sigh of relieve but i can gaurantee you would bet small to start nursing it like its the most precious thing, then you would start getting little care free as lossing then would be in such a state half way throw would throw the rest away.
So i guess what i have learnt is every bet is precious win or loss and try not loss let winning take care of its self but lossing i have to work out ways not to.
 
gerry gerry mentions - Golf and it is a useful analogy

its played over strict term - you only have so many shots - EVERY SHOT IS OF EQUAL VALUE - the 250yd drive is only as valuable as the shortest put - cannot afford to waste any.

Also we need to be aware that most who have replied (I am slightly guessing here) will be retired so have plenty of time to enter into the challenge involved.
 
More very good posts above, from markfinn markfinn, pete gerry and footysystems footysystems , imo.

" a £ saved is as good as a £ earned".

When Wimpey were already a big, established company, they worked on 2% profit per annum.
The thing about business is that all expenses and outlays are included.

I am not at sure gamblers include all their overheads. Some don't even know what they are.

It's the same with the market stall.
Transport, purchase of goods costs, stall costs, pitch costs, running costs, admin costs, labour costs etc all have to be deducted from the take.
Driving hundred miles or more a day just to sell one carpet for £50 ain't gonna get you to break-even point.
You're paying to work.

Similarly, if all the clever chaps on a forum like this were to book their time studying and cost of access to data, paid-for ratings etc, they'd probably be needing to work on a basis of £60 per hour.
Maybe that ain't as much as they get in their "day job", if they have one, so why would they be doing it?

Certainly, my profit margin, when I was at the gambling on course, was nowhere near enough to be sustainable long term.
My best years didn't produce enough to do more than keeping doing it.
Overall, I just about made a cup of tea out of it.

I class that as failure, but, I did try. :),

There are several on here, however, who do much better. Well done, them!
 
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