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Seeking That Vital Edge

For mick and markfinn, I agree with you both :D. If I put it into context, I am an old man in my 85th year now and enjoy betting as an intellectual exercise and don't expect to win much money, although I don't wish to lose any either. If I had an infallible method what would I do with all the money, in fact would i be able to get any bets on? I do derive a great deal of satisfaction in finding winners from assessing races (markfinn is probably the only person who thinks I am not a total wally!)
The reason I returned to this subject was due to reading stuff from my racing library, such as follows:

Calculating the Value (a synopsis of an article in Smart magazine, March 1995)

‘To be certain you are using an accurate method for calculating value it’s only necessary to keep an extended record of the calculated prices and results matching the win/lose ratio to the average percentage indicated by value odds. If the method is accurate, they should of course come out the same. Based on an analysis of close to 5,000 races, the following approach delivers the goods.

Using the Racing Post betting forecast strip out the over-round increment and the resulting prices reflect their Spotlight correspondent’s opinion of fair odds. The 5,000 after the deduction compared with the actual over-round at starting price came out almost the same. This is close enough to accept the calculation as true for betting purposes. These being fair odds it’s not enough to simply bet them to show a profit a percentage must always be added to come out ahead on a permanent basis.’

This is me Jackform. The above then is the basis in trying to resolve the problem of selecting the best available bet as opposed to a value bet. Comparing the early morning betting market, hopefully formed by more professional money, with the betting forecast as above gives an indication of the horses to consider in a race. It does mean that more often than not the layers still have the advantage and to overcome this it is necessary to strive for a high strike-rate. Supporting up to three runners in a race is currently the approach employed to achieve this aim after a simple form analysis. The bet being any in the early betting market that have shown some form that are at bigger odds (or at least comparable odds) than the calculated betting forecast fair odds.

More on Value (a synopsis of an article with a different opinion in Smart magazine, August 1995)

‘Being interested as to how SP forecasts were compiled I gave the Racing Post a ring. They told me that they were compiled by whichever reporter was Spotlight at the meeting in question and were based on their evaluation of form for the smaller races while reflecting bookmakers’ early prices for the larger, more competitive handicaps. So, the value supporter is using either one person’s interpretation of form via the odds compiled, or worse still, is using the bookmakers’ prices to base his system on – surely an unlikely source of value?

Therefore, any value system must be based on what a horse has achieved in relation to its competitors. By this is meant that a horse whose form is equal to its chief rivals but is at a larger price is the value bet, form however, is subjective not objective. So what is needed, some kind of form rating? Whatever method is used is unimportant as long as the rating is compiled in the same way every time it is not open to opinion, discussion or interpretation. It cannot be swayed by such things as jockey bookings, fashionable trainers, the need to balance a book etc.

A high speed rating means that a race was won in a fast time – knock the form if you will, but you ignore the time recorded at your peril. Likewise private handicap ratings can put you on to a value bet whilst the horse in question has been ignored by the majority of professional opinion, something such as RPR where the latest rating compares to the best rating.’

This is me Jackform. I try to incorporate some of this thinking into my basic form analysis of a race. However, at the end of the season if you are in profit you have been getting value and if not you ain’t .
 
No difference of opinion at present then :handgestures-thumbup:. This is an exercise in 'pure' form that is comparing past performance on the track and the early market expected for today's race. For added interest I have compared the overall form with that old rascal Van der Wheil as he would have rated them (except the old duffer's top ratings were the lowest making it a little more difficult). The rated races are all forecast as restricted races in the early market.

Will Rogers Downs
19.15. (ATR verdict Hong Kong Helen, Deja Sue)

11. 113* (Jackform) - 121* (VDW) Hong Kong Helen
10. 60 - 106 Deja Sue
4. 79 - 106 Tell Me Boo Boo
7. 90* -112* Lakeside

2015. (ATR verdict Strong Side, Valiant Appeal)

5. 173* - 120* Valiant Appeal
7. 202* - 124* Strong Side
2. 101 -110 Flatout Winner
1. 117 - 118 Dance Doctor

2045. (ATR verdict Nocturnal Mission, Silky Appeal)

3. 151 - 122* Nocturnal Vision
5. 176* - 119 Silky Appeal
6. 105 - 112 Bella Kristina

21.15. (ATR verdict Tapindeed, College Queen)

3. 142* - 117 Tapindeed
7. 128 - 117 College Queen
9.137 - 119* Leighton Kentucky
2. 111 - 116 Tiz The Storm
10. 110 - 110 Silver Moon Rising
11. 156* - 119* Zimmie's Lemon Drop

23.15. (ATR verdict Red Red Wine, Gray Sky Mesa)

8. 198* - 122* Gray Sky Mesa
2. 171* -124* Righteous Mover
3. 136 - 119 Starlight Twist
5. ? - ? Red Red Wine (not enough data - won LTO April)
 
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Just for interest had an email out-of-the-blue today from COUP HORSES (no idea?) informing that Don 2.20 Minella Encore is confidently expected to win today. So, compiled a Fineform chart for comparison.

Doncaster (going forecast S) RP Spotlight selects Minella Encore (4 pundits agree 9 oppose)
2.20 Market expected 11.05* no's 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 indicating an open contest. Theoretical strong fav 6/4, possible contender 3/1, not expected longer than 6/1.

1*. 11 = Fineform fair 9/2 (4/1 mkt) 5 tips (BF). Minella Encore
6*. 18 = 9/4 (7/2) 3 tips (C&DD). The Late Legend
7*. 14 = 3/1 (6/1) 2 tips (D2). Gleno

Comment: I can't be inveigled into subscription services at this stage of my betting career so I would have to go with The Late Legend.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
THE LATE LEGEND continues to progress at a rapid rate and the eight-year-old scored his fifth victory of the season when proving too strong over C&D last month. An 8lb rise may not be enough to stop him from taking another step forward despite the step up in the class. Minella Encore commands respect on his first outing since wind surgery, while Eva's Oskar may benefit from the switch to handicap company for the first time over fences.
Top Tip: THE LATE LEGEND (6)
Watch out for: MINELLA ENCORE (1)
 
Value! Value! Value! -and that's controversial for a start :eek: ! Basically IMO it's when the punter is making an overall profit from his betting.
However, is it possible for an 'amateur' enthusiast, say a wally like me :dreads:, to calculate a successful financial edge without too much effort? There's the rub.

Huntingdon (going forecast GS)
2.00 Market expected 11.30 no's 1, 2, 3, 5 indicating a win restricted to these.

1. 9/2 (mkt incl overround), 9/2 (MY fair odds) Pasvolsky. Stake £5 at my odds to clear £20 (4% of a £500 bank)
2. 6/5 - 11/2 Marada
3. 11/4 - 6/1 Mystery Bere
5. 8/1 - 15/2 Oasis Prince. Stake £3 at my odds as above. (strictly speaking this ought to be each-way I suppose)

Comment: The market currently expects Marada to win and any danger would be Mystery Bere.
 
Good luck Jackform Jackform . I think Rabski could run better than his price, but agree with you that the winner will most likely come from those 4. I haven’t had a bet in race, so I hope one of yours wins.
 
My choice of race was wrong yesterday as IMO it was restricted to a win from the short odds end of the market. What I ought to have done was taken a more open contest and that's where I am today. Not only that it's from the AW racing, which I am clueless about, so a real test.

Wolverhampton (going forecast St) RP Spotlight selects Power Over Me (2 pundits agree 10 oppose)
5.40 Market expected 10.30 no's 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10 indicating an open contest. Theoretical strong fav 5/2, possible contender 5/1, not expected longer than 10/1.

1. 8/1 (mkt incl overround), 8/1 (Fair odds IMO). Power Over Me.
2. 9/1 - 10/1 Spartan Fighter.
3. 6/1
4. 9/2
6. 15/2
9. 11/2 - 8/1 Turanga Leela
10.17/2

Comment: No fancy staking just 1 point each Power over Me and Spartan Fighter at early mkt odds. I do like Storm over too but have excluded it as it's 'not expected' by the early market

ATR Timeform verdict in comparison (taken time rather than form as it is a 6f sprint hcap)
TURANGA LEELA has a tremendous record at this venue and she's a consistent sprinter so she is taken to see off a competitive field. Prince of Rome has edged down the weights and has to be seriously considered. Storm Over disappointed last time but had won prior to that and is an each-way player.
  1. TURANGA LEELA (9)
  2. PRINCE OF ROME (7) 11/1 (mkt) - 12/1 (my fair odds)
  3. STORM OVER (8) 11/1 - 9/1
 
Jack cracks the AW at last so now to be known as 'Crackerjack' :dreads: . Pride comes before a fall and today could be the day as today's race looks difficult for punters IMO. I have considered RPR as well as my own opinion, which as far as I know involves tinkering with the OR by conjecture in both cases against the official figures calculated within strict performance rules.

Newcastle (going forecast GS with showers) RP Spotlight selects Telson Barley.
2.15 Market expected 09.15 no's 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 indicating as an open contest. Theoretical strong fav 11/4, possible contenders 11/2 - 11/1, not expected longer than 11/1.

1. 11/1 (mkt), 10/1 (RPR), 11/1 (Crackerjack :D). Dragonfruit
2. 9/1, 11/1, 11/1
6. 10/1, 10/1, 10/1. Definite Wisdom
7. 4/1, 10/1, 8/1 (Telson Barley)
8. 7/2, 10/1, 10/1 (Flamboyaunt Joyeux)
10. 20/1, 10/1, 11/1
11. 6/1, 10/1, 11/1
12. 8/1, 11/1, 13/1 (Charlie Snow Angel)

Comment: Rated by everyone as very tight on paper. 1 point each on Dragonfruit and Definite Wisdom are my two and more or less agreed all round.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
A tricky puzzle for punters to solve but there is plenty to like about the chances of CHARLIE SNOW ANGEL, who has gone up 4lb for his 3m2f success at Kelso in late December but remains well treated in relation to his best form. Definite Wisdom isn't one to rely on but would be a big player if in the same form as when scoring off 4lb lower at Musselburgh on his penultimate outing, while Flamboyant Joyaux is also capable on his day.
Top Tip: CHARLIE SNOW ANGEL (12)
Watch out for: DEFINITE WISDOM (6)
 
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Have another go at the value issue after a lapse of over a year :).

Cartmel (going forecast G watered) RP Spotlight selects Oscar Wilde ( 1 pundit agrees 9 oppose) J Moffat top track trainer with Rapid Flight.
4.29 Market expected 09.00 no's 8, 4, 10, 7 indicating a win restricted to these. Theoretical strong fav 9/4, possible contender 9/2, not expected longer than 9/1.
4. Rapid Flight (9/2 mkt) 1 tip (BF?). My value calculation required 10/1?
7. Tico Times (6/1) 1 tip (D). Value req 6/1 so on the cusp early?
8. Oscar Wilde (5/2) 2 tips. Value req 1/1?
10. Mah Mate Bob (11/2) 4 tips (C&D). Val req 8/1?

Comment: I go Tico Times e.w at current odds.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
In this competitive contest marginal preference is for FURAX ( 8/1 mkt) , who put in an encouraging performance when third behind Tico Times at Perth last time out. The seven-year-old has a 1lb swing in his favour and gets the vote to land the spoils. The latter must also be respected off 3lb higher than that outing, while Brelan D'As only found one rival too strong last time out and could take a step forward.
Top Tip: FURAX (5)
Watch out for: TICO TIMES (7)
 
Raised some interest with the lat post, so had another attempt at the Principal meeting:romance-grouphug:

Haydock (going forecast G watered) RP Spotlight selects Contact ( 4 pundits agree 9 oppose)
2.20 Market expected 11.30 no's 8, 10, 13, 12 indicating a win restricted to these. Theoretical strong fav 11/4, possible contender 11/2, not expected longer than 7/1.

8. Mahrajaan (5/2 mkt) 4 tips (D2BF?) LTO 232?. Value odds required 3/1+ (W Haggas/J Crowley)
10. Contact (3/1) 5 tips (D2). Value req 4/1
12. HMS President (11/1). Value req 10/1
13. Forza Orta (4/1) 3 tips . Value req -4/1 on the cusp at 11.30?

Comment: All the early expected were from no 8 down. Forza Orta was wavering and could be OK without more support. HMS President could be an each way shot if easing a touch.

ATR form verdict in comparison.
FORZA ORTA bumped into a potentially high-class rival when finishing second at York earlier in the month and the unexposed four-year-old merits plenty of respect off just a 3lb higher mark. Mahrajaan was progressive last year and he is only 1lb higher than when third on his most recent outing in a valuable contest also at York in October. The handicapper has given a big chance to Scarlet Dragon, who is now 11lb lower than when sixth in the Duke Of Edinburgh Stakes at Royal Ascot a year ago.
Top Tip: FORZA ORTA (13)
Watch out for: MAHRAJAAN (8)
 
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