• Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a free 7 day trial of Horseracebase here.
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    AR

How to determine if first handicap debut mark is good?

Hi M moody

I run a thread on the Blog called Pedigree Handicapping .

Quite often the 3 generation Pedigree Charts will give you a clue as to the Individual Horses potential, especially if it’s Speed Figs (in this Case TheBluesBrother TheBluesBrother Figs confirm that potential ) On the Class Sheet you will see a column marked TBB theses are the Speed Figs that are TheBluesBrother TheBluesBrother ones.

the horse earned that fig in a class 4 race and if you use TheBluesBrother TheBluesBrother Class Par chart the horse ran to a Class 3 performance

this is the Pedigree Link that appears in the Screen Shot http://www.tattersalls.com/cat/CAP/2018/19.pdf

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I know little about juveniles - but it seems that neither do the stables - the form book lists all races and its amazing how many low class handicappers start their racing carrier in races far beyond their eventual class ceiling - you would think they would be campaigned into winnings ways asap - ticking of as many low class races as possible .
 
T tacker Agree with much of what you say. But reading articles written by official handicappers together with the odd video interview, encouraged me to do something that they cannot do in keeping the peace between trainers querying their horses marks. That is to produce predictions of future ratings of horses. In my day job I had to identify possible improvements, estimate the potential and figure out how much was worth achieving. So, it was natural to think this way when I started analysing 2yo performances nearly 60 years ago.

In that research, on the one hand I would look for ‘tells’ in how the horse actually ran, and on the other hand what it later achieved in future races (not necessarily nto). Raceform have a list of coded words and phrases to use in their comments in running reports – although some race readers use unlisted ones . Their ‘notebook’ comments are less structured but can add to the picture in my mind of how and why some action happened - as well as confuse? Analysing years of 1000s of races of horses in Timeform’s Black Books gave me extra vocabulary and a list of extra tell tale mid-race events. Early work was manual notes on paper; then cards. Methods had to be developed for quantifying collections of those words and phrases, that took many years of trail and error. Personal computers in the early 80s allowed automation and the first real practical applications – all calcs feed a routine that gives the win probabilities of all horses in a race with half Kelly staking. Its well calibrated in that 0.25 horses win around 25% of the time. Its less accurate at the two tail ends.

Its was this sort of approach that allowed me to conclude that Frankel was highly likely to be placed in the 2000 guineas after his first 2yo run. On analysing his 2nd run I was then pretty sure that he would be capable of achieving a rating that was well above the average winning rating for that race. Actually it was off my usual scale. I kept checking my calcs for a mistake. That was the result of a combination of evidence. But in some cases, a single clue can make a big difference between actual performance and potential improvement. An obvious example of that would be hanging left on a right hand bend, and vice versa. Lingfield 5f races come to mind with improvements of 20lbs + for some young 2yos trying to get round that tight bend. I tried recording videos and reviewing same when the first video recorders came out but too time consuming.

At last, I automated that bit of the method that was a big time saver. Everything is measured in lbs weight; could be in seconds, but at least the units are consistent across the board. This may all sound an odd thing to do, but its what problem solving practitioners in statistical science do all the time, just the appliance of science?

Apologies if I’ve already posted bits of this before, it’s just that tackers posting sent me off on one.
 
ArkRoyal ArkRoyal

Thanks for that. I’ve thought about that on and off but my macros were constructed on an XP machine years ago including paths to files etc. I didn’t know if they would run on other XL versions or on other OS, so I put all my horseracing stuff on a windows 7 box that allowed virtual XP mode to run. That’s not connected to the internet for security reasons. I’ve forgotten how I produced the old macros and would probably not understand bits of them if they needed any changes. For the last few years I’ve used equations rather than macros. Those I can read and understand. Scary or what?
 
S student, yes that is scary! 😲
There will have been some tweaks over the years to excel but nothing too major. The version of windows shouldn't be an issue though. If you ever want to update I would be happy to help out.
 
S student your above triggered some memory's i have bought Race Form products for close to 50yrs and do not miss the bootlaces on balance but not all things change for the better. These days i tend to favor the in running abbreviated comments provided by the on course race readers over the note book ones which are produced in house.

Current times i find the lw "Looked Well" comment to be missing and suspect that Paddock judges are no longer part of the package. I have also bent there ears concerning the reduction in mentions of a horses comparative physical size which is useful for older horses as well when seeking evidence of weight carrying ability.

I found switching to the on line version did not make me a better punter but does make the process more enjoyable, at least when the software is running smoothly but when the opposite occurs i am on the phone in a state of panic. They have now created a remote access facility which works a treat and i do wonder if i was the cause. :eek:
 
Out of interest mick mick what sort of issues do you get with RI that cause you to phone them up? I can't remember having any show stoppers over the last couple of years.
 
Out of interest mick mick what sort of issues do you get with RI that cause you to phone them up? I can't remember having any show stoppers over the last couple of years.
Tbf in recent times none but in the past error messages which prevented using and one of the worst when my own ratings facility stopped working. They calmly attempt to talk me through the solution via phone and this often just made matters worse (with my often poor hearing and lack of computer knowledge not helpful). During that period when there main server went down and the decs had to be manually loaded i got in all sorts of muddles.! As mentioned the remote access facility is great and very reassuring because i can just say " Its me take over and sort it" :)

Thinking back over the years fair dues to David and Rodney for there tolerance and tenacity. !
 
mick mick
Agree re reduced comments in running. Over the years my automated RI rating adjustment for trip handicap is reduced, I suspect for the reason you suggest. I notice that cases of adjustment (increased future rating projection) of 10+ lbs is less than it used to be. But I'm not going back to the manual routine I used to do. Lol
 
markfinn markfinn

Many thanks for that. Fascinating article. I was using the gospel around during my track & field career that ended in 1962, noticing the shortening of stride of some horses in the ff since then seemed like my own experience. Very painful.
Denis
 
markfinn markfinn

Many thanks for that. Fascinating article. I was using the gospel around during my track & field career that ended in 1962, noticing the shortening of stride of some horses in the ff since then seemed like my own experience. Very painful.
Denis
Its not conclusive and it doesn't alter the actual fact of muscle pain after oxygen starved excursion, just thought it was an interesting read. I also noted in some of the other articles around Lactic (and and the dubious ways employed by some around avoid its build up) also mention the possible role of mitochondrial in suppressing it, which we have discussed in the past mainly in regard to the inheritance of.
 
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