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ELO Ratings - Something New that I have been working on.....

I suppose that's true O Outlander but maybe we still use this old fashion term because it's more of a visual thing.

The wider point is possibly summed up by seperating how fast was the time to how was the final time achieved ?

Still need time to try and get my head around all of the information on offer tbh.
The only time I ever looked at lengths was if I didn’t have time, in the hope I could convert to time, I don’t even know what a length is, I don’t know if it’s even a consistent measurement, is a length always the same length, what length is a length? I have no idea apart from a guess it might be approximately 2.7m, it’s a but like when my wife asks me what is 1.3 metres and the only answer that comes to mind is it’s 1.3m , but she wants the answer in lengths of the tv or rug in the front room or something mental like that.
 
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Hi Mr D

The distance beaten values change when the going gets soft or worse, 5 Lengts per second as opposed to 6 lengths per sec on when the going is good or better. Lingfield AW 6 Lengths per Second & Southwell AW 5 lengths per second

View attachment 1212

You can see what I mean that there was more information about race course configurations in 1937 than 2014 LOL

Good Luck

Chesham

Hi Mr D

RE Not sure where you are coming from talking about distance beaten.. I have my own way of calculating close to the exact time a horse finishes a race

As you are aware a length is not a measure in Feet and Inches but a Time Length, if you know that the Photo Finish Camera is set at 5 lengths per second you can work out the actual time for each runner and convert that to MPH

The Photo Finish equipment is use to determine the Lengths between each runner, for instance at Dundalk on Friday the Photo Finish Equipment was set to 6 Lengths per Second and the Photo Finish Equipment then prints out the Time each horse crossed the line, not just the winner. So if you know the Time that Each horse completed the course & Distance in you only need to compare each runner in the race with what ever standard yoga re using.

For intense Top Speed would take the Winners Time and deduct lbs per length beaten as he does not know the actual time that the 2nd, 3rd or 4th runners crossed the line. But if he knows that the Photo Finish camera has been set to 6 Lengths per second he can work out the finishing times for all runners.

With Irish Racing they Publish the actual Time that each horse crossed the Line, not just the winners final time Wind Inher Crosed the line in 58.76, scroll down to Kernoff who finished in 59.07 Monsieur in 59.3

View attachment 1221

The Raw Speed ratings using the App that I use is set to 6 Lengths per second

View attachment 1222

Close enough to the official Time, so instead of having to deduct Lbs per length you can compare each runner against Standard, we also know that the average speed for the winner was 38.29 MPH, 2nd 38.08 MPH and 3rd 37.94 MPH. The last horse = 36.67 MPH

View attachment 1223

With regards The Tote Investors I only have one Copy, which I picked up around 30 years ago in a Junk Shop in Wales

Good Luck

Chesham

Of course you can now use the GPS MPH and not the Photo Finish Timings
 
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Converting to pounds accounts for the race distance
Converting to pounds , surely the only possible reason you would convert anything to do with racing to pounds is to compare to the weight being carried, apart from that converting to pounds must only cause potential inaccuracies.
so horse runs 5 furlongs in 58.00 , par times is 57.60, where is the official conversion to pounds, how many pounds has this horse run slower than par, then does the going or weight carried or pace of race or wind or horse body weight oranything else effect this conversion to pounds. Even if everything is neutral , how many pounds to 2 decimal places has this horse run slower than par. Is there a known mathematical formula to convert race times to pounds.
 
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Converting to pounds , surely the only possible reason you would convert anything to do with racing to pounds is to compare to the weight being carried, apart from that converting to pounds must only cause potential inaccuracies.
so horse runs 5 furlongs in 58.00 , par times is 57.60, where is the official conversion to pounds, how many pounds has this horse run slower than par, then does the going or weight carried or pace of race or wind or horse body weight oranything else effect this conversion to pounds. Even if everything is neutral , how many pounds to 2 decimal places has this horse run slower than par. Is there a known mathematical formula to convert race times to pounds.
Yeah O Outlander this is the sole reason that handicap ratings are in pounds in the first place and goes way back to originators like Dick Whitford a founding member of Timeform. They knew that carried weight had an effect so then attempted to relate beaten margins to the same unit hence - lengths to pounds.
Regarding a universal formula i don't think so but you have to attempt to account for it somehow by making assumptions and then sticking to it. Those assumptions should at least be based on some science.
In the end your results will tell you if your on the right track or not.
So within a running flat population the heaviest horses as a cohort are probably mature sprinters - you could look to HK, Japan & South Africa data for a value - estimate around 1200 lbs (last time i looked at HK think the average weight of a thoroughbred was around 1150 lbs ...don't quote me on that) or you could look to several academic studies that have been done.
Next take the most "common" jockey/handicap top weight impost - in the UK this would be around 10 stone or 140 lbs.
Then you have your running "scale" which is now universal - most of the countries that are part of the Global Handicapping committee have all adopted Whitford's 0-140 lbs scale.
Add in a roughly 15-20 lb average improvement factor over the course of a season for 2 and 3yos which will be a large % of your population your rating in the UK.
All these inputs would be additive so (1200+140+140+20) =1500 lbs which would you then calibrate to your minimum distance.
Hey, that's what John Whitley come up with when he was timefigure manager at Timeform
QED
Calibrating to a minimum of 5f - again in the UK an average time of around 60 seconds given that only around 30% of races are on truly fast ground at least sounds more "right" than wrong.
So then your calibrating it to a racetime (which is how it should be done a la the lengths "thing") you can then say
"im using 1500 lbs per every 60 seconds of racetime"
which also makes the scale variable as racetimes increase as distance gets longer
(1.00sec/60.00sec)*1500 gives a Pounds Per Second value of 25lbs per second
which means (assuming 6 lengths per second) 25/6 = 4.17 lbs per length
So now you have a framework where actual racetime is used to derive the poundage used in both handicap and time figures
A race that goes in 55.60 (Epsom at 5f) will have a value of (1.00/55.60)*1500 = 26.98 lbs per second or 4.50 lbs per length
while
a race that goes in 125.40 (10f at Newmarket) will have a value of (1.00/125.40)*1500=11.96 lbs per second or 1.99lbs per length
As said your results will tell you if your on the right track
Find the baselines of say win % or % of rivals beaten or how much money it loses on Betfair by each rank of rating
Then change that 1500 lbs to a lesser value and test again - does it improve or get worse than the 1500lb baselines ???
Change it to a higher value and test again - does it improve on the 1500lb baselines ???
 
Using the RaceiQ data from this 1m 1y Class 6 3YO Handicap at Lingfield, Ernie Mccrew earns a converted speed rating of 52, while third-placed topweight Yazoo posts the highest figure on the clock at 58. Because the race recorded a Time Index of 4.9/10 (0.52s slower than par), the overall time figure sits slightly below a standard Class 6 benchmark.

Step-by-Step Conversion Formula
To convert the RaceiQ metrics into BHA-scale speed figures for each horse, the calculation uses four parameters:
  • Class 6 Baseline Par. A standard Class 6 (0–60) 3YO handicap par at 9st 0lb (126 lbs) is anchored at 57.
  • Vs. Par Adjustment. Because the race was 0.52s slower than RaceiQ par (reflected by the 4.9/10 Time Index), we deduct 6.2 lbs using a 1-mile scale of 12 lbs per second (based on RaceiQ's 0.167s per length and 2 lbs per length at 8 furlongs). This sets the winner's base time figure at 50.8 before weight.
  • Weight Carried. Each pound carried above or below 9st 0lb is added or subtracted directly (for example, Yazoo carried 9st 11lb, earning +11 lbs).
  • Beaten Time. Using each runner's exact individual time variance behind Ernie Mccrew's 1m 38.55s, we subtract 12 lbs per second behind the winner.

Converted RaceiQ Speed Ratings

Pos.HorseOfficial Rating (OR)Weight CarriedTime Behind WinnerFinishing Speed % (FSP)Converted Speed Rating
1stErnie Mccrew509-10.00s105.09%52
2ndHenfield519-2+0.21s108.23%50
3rdYazoo609-11+0.29s105.76%58
4thPoetic Grace458-10+0.45s104.06%41
5thMelodical589-9+0.55s103.73%53
6thMokata458-10+0.94s105.92%35
7thIrish Fusilier579-8+0.95s105.16%47
8thCreciente559-6+0.99s104.41%45
9thCortado Girl458-10+9.18s84.67%-63(Tailed off)


Key Takeaways from the Sectionals
  • Best Sectional Upgrade (Henfield). Runner-up Henfield produced a massive 108.23% Finishing Speed Percentage, closing the final furlong in 11.21s compared to the winner's 11.81s. Because the early gallop was steady, Henfield was disadvantaged by being held up in last (+0.84s off the lead at 6f) and warrants a 3 to 4 lb sectional upgrade (to roughly 53–54).
  • Top Weight Effort (Yazoo). Despite finishing third, Yazoo conceded 10 lbs to the winner and 9 lbs to the second while beaten less than two lengths, earning the highest raw weight-adjusted figure (58) in the field.
  • python
    # Race details:
    # Class 6 3YO only Handicap, 1m 1y (8f), Standard
    # Official Winning time: 1m 38.54s (98.54s)
    # RaceiQ Vs.Par: 0.52s (Time Index 4.9/10 -> slightly slower than par, since Time Index < 5.0 is slower than par, wait: let's check!)
    # At 1m (8f), 1 length = 0.167s (6 lengths/sec), and 1 length at 1m = ~1.75 to 2 lbs (standard scale at 1m is ~10.5 to 12 lbs per second, or 1.75 - 2 lbs per length).
    # Let's use 6 lengths per second (0.167s/l as stated in the footer of the pasted data: "One horse length is run in approximately 0.167s on good or firmer ground") and 2 lbs per length at 1m (12 lbs per second).
    # Let's check Class 6 3YO handicap par rating:
    # Official Ratings in this race range from 45 to 60! Specifically:
    # 1st: Ernie Mccrew (OR 50, Wgt 9-1 = 127 lbs), Total time: 98.55s (official 98.54s)
    # 2nd: Henfield (OR 51, Wgt 9-2 = 128 lbs), +0.21s (1.5l), Total time: 98.76s, FSP 108.23%
    # 3rd: Yazoo (OR 60, Wgt 9-11 = 137 lbs), +0.29s (2l total: 1.5 + 0.5), Total time: 98.84s, FSP 105.76%
    # 4th: Poetic Grace (OR 45, Wgt 8-10 = 122 lbs), +0.45s (3l total: 2 + 1), Total time: 99.00s, FSP 104.06%
    # 5th: Melodical (OR 58, Wgt 9-9 = 135 lbs), +0.55s (3.75l total: 3 + 0.75), Total time: 99.10s, FSP 103.73%
    # 6th: Mokata (OR 45, Wgt 8-10 = 122 lbs), +0.94s (6l total: 3.75 + 2.25), Total time: 99.49s, FSP 105.92%
    # 7th: Irish Fusilier (OR 57, Wgt 9-8 = 134 lbs), +0.95s (6.05l total: +shd), Total time: 99.50s, FSP 105.16%
    # 8th: Creciente (OR 55, Wgt 9-6 = 132 lbs), +0.99s (6.3l total: +nk), Total time: 99.54s, FSP 104.41%
    # 9th: Cortado Girl (OR 45, Wgt 8-10 = 122 lbs), +9.18s (55.3l total: +49l), Total time: 107.73s, FSP 84.67%

    # Let's check the weight scale in this race!
    # OR 60 carries 9-11 (137 lbs). Notice 137 - 60 = 77!
    # OR 58 carries 9-9 (135 lbs). 135 - 58 = 77!
    # OR 57 carries 9-8 (134 lbs). 134 - 57 = 77!
    # OR 55 carries 9-6 (132 lbs). 132 - 55 = 77!
    # OR 51 carries 9-2 (128 lbs). 128 - 51 = 77!
    # OR 50 carries 9-1 (127 lbs). 127 - 50 = 77!
    # OR 45 carries 8-10 (122 lbs). 122 - 45 = 77!
    # Every single horse's weight = OR + 77 lbs (so 9-0 = 126 lbs corresponds to OR 49!).

    # Now let's check RaceiQ Vs.Par = 0.52s with Time Index 4.9/10.
    # In RaceiQ, Time Index 5.0 is exact Par. 4.9/10 means the race was 0.52s SLOWER than Par!
    # Wait: at 1 mile (8f), 1 second = 6 lengths = 12 lbs (at 2 lbs per length for 1m).
    # So 0.52s slower than par = -6.24 lbs (roughly -6 lbs) below the Class 6 Par!
    # What is the Par BHA rating for a Class 6 (0-60) 3yo handicap? Usually around 55-58 (at 9-0 / 126 lbs).
    # Let's test if Par = 57 at 9-0 (126 lbs):
    # Winner Ernie Mccrew:
    # Raw time rating = 57 - (0.52 * 12) = 57 - 6.24 = 50.76
    # Weight adjustment vs 9-0 (126 lbs): carried 9-1 (127 lbs) -> +1 lb -> 51.76 (~52).
    # Notice Ernie Mccrew's Official Rating is 50! Winning a Class 6 off 50 in a slightly slow time (4.9/10) puts his speed rating right around 52!

    runners = [
    ("1st", "Ernie Mccrew", 50, "9-1", 127, 0.00, 105.09),
    ("2nd", "Henfield", 51, "9-2", 128, 0.21, 108.23),
    ("3rd", "Yazoo", 60, "9-11", 137, 0.29, 105.76),
    ("4th", "Poetic Grace", 45, "8-10", 122, 0.45, 104.06),
    ("5th", "Melodical", 58, "9-9", 135, 0.55, 103.73),
    ("6th", "Mokata", 45, "8-10", 122, 0.94, 105.92),
    ("7th", "Irish Fusilier", 57, "9-8", 134, 0.95, 105.16),
    ("8th", "Creciente", 55, "9-6", 132, 0.99, 104.41),
    ("9th", "Cortado Girl", 45, "8-10", 122, 9.18, 84.67),
    ]

    par_rating_at_9st = 57.0
    vs_par_sec = 0.52 # 4.9/10 time index -> slower than par
    lbs_per_sec = 12.0 # 6 lengths/sec * 2 lbs/length at 1 mile

    winner_raw = par_rating_at_9st - (vs_par_sec * lbs_per_sec)



    for pos, name, or_val, wgt_str, wgt_lbs, diff_sec, fsp in runners:
    wgt_adj = wgt_lbs - 126
    beaten_adj = diff_sec * lbs_per_sec
    raw_fig = winner_raw + wgt_adj - beaten_adj
    print(f"{pos:3} | {name:15} | OR:{or_val:2} | Wgt:{wgt_str:4} ({wgt_lbs}) | +Sec:{diff_sec:4.2f} | Fig:{raw_fig:5.1f} -> {round(raw_fig)} | FSP:{fsp}%")

    Use code with caution.



 
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