Haven't even looked at anything to do with horse racing for a few weeks due to family issues consuming me, yesterday i tried to get away from that for an hour or so and as an antidote to the real world, i was watching Hong Kong racing . I was looking at the form on the racing post app on my ipad, i realised that the RPR ratings were extremely tight for almost all the runners i looked at, they appeared to run within a few pounds of their form every time, comparing this to UK and Irish racing the RPRs were up and down wildly changing and mostly unpredictable for the runners i looked at. Is the conclusion i came to in that moment that not many participants in the UK and Ire racing scene could lie straight in bed a true reflection or are there other factors explaining my unscientific findings. I thought maybe going but they run just as unpredictably on the all weather tracks, i think its bent beyond comprehension to be honest i think the whole handicapping and bookmaking system actively encourages it to be bent, and human nature is to squeeze what you can given a free opportunity with no consequences. Any Thoughts? Am i being too sceptical?
How bent is UK and Ire racing?
- Thread starter Outlander
- Start date
markfinn
Sire
90% straight - the bent bit might possibly be applicable to a few runners in lower classes of races due to trainer experiments or actively playing the ratings game
That's a lot of it picking the correct races for your ideas
Chesham
Sire
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a lot of these guys who beat the tote did it by losing minimally(still impressive with a 17% rake) but flooding the pools to such an extent that they were given overly generous rebates from the tote operators enabling them to win millions, the tote operators will have woke up to that angle now, one guy destroyed the Tasmanian tote doing that. I doubt anyone could systematically beat the tote rake for millions without rebates.
markfinn
Sire
Chesham I liked this quote in the Bloomsburg Report - “If you bet on horses, you will lose,” says Warwick Bartlett, who runs Global Betting & Gaming - load of balls waht he should have said - If you bet constantly , badly or blindly you will lose . There again if you cross the road with looking you might get knocked - there again you may never get hit.
Chesham
Sire
So you are backing Marek
Good luck with your bet, I have not see a horse that old win a 3 Y-O + handicap on the Windsor 6f
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Bold Gait
Mare
To answer the original question.
There are various initiatives to prevent corrupt practice in British and Irish racing and to go through them all would be like showing your grandma how to suck eggs.
The handicapping system is such, that trainers adopt various methods of reducing a horses mark once it has reached the level at which it can perform. Running a horse not on the boil over the correct distance, over the wrong distance and in a class where it has no chance......all of these, as far as I know are legal. Some horses come through novice and maiden races where they have never been put in with a chance of being placed and this is frequently reflected in their odds.
Unfortunately, where there is gambling, there will always be the odd person intent on making money illegally if they can. This can be said of other sports such as snooker, Football and cricket etc where there are many publicised incidents of corruption around betting. racing is probably no worse than the sports I have mentioned!
There are various initiatives to prevent corrupt practice in British and Irish racing and to go through them all would be like showing your grandma how to suck eggs.
The handicapping system is such, that trainers adopt various methods of reducing a horses mark once it has reached the level at which it can perform. Running a horse not on the boil over the correct distance, over the wrong distance and in a class where it has no chance......all of these, as far as I know are legal. Some horses come through novice and maiden races where they have never been put in with a chance of being placed and this is frequently reflected in their odds.
Unfortunately, where there is gambling, there will always be the odd person intent on making money illegally if they can. This can be said of other sports such as snooker, Football and cricket etc where there are many publicised incidents of corruption around betting. racing is probably no worse than the sports I have mentioned!
footysystems
Gelding
Football is bent around some of the countries around the world and it quite obvious, but some football is that bad its worst than pub football used to be.
markfinn
Sire
The power of the tote - Uk is anchored by its own history
mick
Sire
From my perspective legal bent is good. I call this PTL Placed To Lose : It is fit and trying but not expected to be involved in the finish because of the unsuitability of the ask. Proper Bent when connections conspire to achieve this by illegal means is another matter. Both have always existed but the advent of Bet Fair has imo increased the incidents of the latter.
markfinn
Sire
can we / should we even separate the two - stopped by none connections from winning thereby screwing the connections & all others = Jockey ? Drugs ? Injury to horse -
Gaming for a future price or handicap mark ? .......Is seen by us and others as acceptable and even beneficial.
Where do we cry foul.........are we just informed Hippocrates
Getting into deep moral waters here
Gaming for a future price or handicap mark ? .......Is seen by us and others as acceptable and even beneficial.
Where do we cry foul.........are we just informed Hippocrates
Getting into deep moral waters here
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mick
Sire
I think the moral aspect comes down to how the Gaming is attempted, because as the rules of racing stand then this can be accomplished legally.
Chesham
Sire
Agree, in the 30’s it was an expanding organisation, building what it called modern electronic Totaliser Boards at race tracks. They also took telephone and telegram bets.
If we had the same set up as Hong Kong they would not be bothered by winning punters as they have their cut whatever the result. The government would get their revenue and the Race Courses theirs too.
Reading the Benter article they we’re trying to land the big rollovers for Triples etc. Ben Dr Z was using the USA Tote when backing for a Place on a short priced favourite as the Place Odds were out of sinc with the win odds. Phil Bull also mentions in ”Betting The Timeform Way” that the place odds can be out of sinc when compared to the Win Odds and in the Backers favour.
For a few years I enjoyed Spread Betting (Sporting Index ) and certain match bets when it was a group,or listed Race. Usually young horses who were stepping up to around 12f as on Breeding some had more in bred stamina . I had to telephone for the latest spread and how much stake I wanted to risk per Length, with over or under the spread .
it did not matter if for instance the horse I was buying to beat the spread won, just as long as it finished in front of the other horse in the spread. Although I tended to back those in the spread who I also thought would actually win.
I did start to get frustrated when a Horse who was Going to win was eased up by a showboating Jockey, as it often reduced the number of lengths that it finished in front of the other spread match horse.
There was never a problem getting on as Sporting Index adjusted the spread as they went along and of course I could be buy and others selling the spread. If neither the Selelr of buyer of the spread won, then SI cleaned up in those races
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