• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
  • There seems to be a problem with some alerts not being emailed to members. I have told the hosts and they are investigating.
  • Hi Guest Just in case you were not aware I wanted to highlight that you can now get a 20% discount on Inform Racing.
    Simply enter the coupon code ukbettingform when subscribing here.
    We have a lot of members who are existing users of Inform Racing so help is always available if needed.
    Best Wishes
    AR
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting


    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
    Keep safe.
    AR

VDW Van Der Speil

Bobajobber

Gelding
Hi all,

I thought I would start up the VDW blog again and pray that it does not get railroaded again.
In all honesty, I needed a little time away from the forum life, to redress the balance in one's life, it is so easy to get caught up with all the nitty-gritty of the virtual world and forget that there are more important things to worry about in real life, so for all the members I had lambasted in the past, my apologies.

Ah ne'er so dire a Thirst of Glory boast,
Nor in the Critick let the Man be lost!
Good-Nature and Good-Sense must ever join;
To err is Humane; to Forgive, Divine.


That does not mean that I will put up with any idiots, sorry, this is my thread, anybody is welcome by all means, but please take your boots off on entry, I will not have anyone walking shit through it.

I want to apologise to mtoto mtoto I may not of been very forthcoming and more reticent when he needed me to, but I honestly understand his frustrations in particular areas of the method, but can assure him there are answers, but they may not be what he wants to hear though. :-(

This blog will not be like the last one, spelling parts out , If ArkRoyal ArkRoyal wants to open the old thread (if he hasn't already), that is fine, they are only pieces of the puzzle, it takes a lot more thinking about and I know the Erin number was wrong, hopefully we can have some debates without the pain.

Anyway on my journey, I noted that Little Owl's AR was wrong? (and his first race was won at Wetherby) even though VDW went to the trouble of telling us in 'Market Harborough Maestro Clears Up One Or Two Points' in The Golden Years Of Van Der Wheil
"Taking the first horse mentioned Little Owl, the ability rating was given as 36. Little Owl a seven year old, scored his first win over 2mile Hurdle at Wincanton during the 1977-8 season and up to date in question, had won a total of 12 races worth £14160 (typo). During the present season three victories had notched up £22367. To obtain the rating it is necessary to use the total number of wins and the total winning sum which in this, is 12 wins worth £44160.


This is what I get for AR, although only slightly different, hope this shows ok.

upload_2016-10-26_23-20-47.png

My findings were that VDW was definitely taking his AR from the Sporting Life, see the attached photo, which I scanned from my visit to Colindale Library, see the bottom line

upload_2016-10-26_23-27-34.png

As you can see these are the same as what is offered up in the The Golden Years, I found other AR's slightly wrong, not sure why, I thought the prize money could be wrong in the Raceform, but I have not fully checked that out, all I know is they are only slight differences, but when you are trying to unravel a puzzle, it can get a little confusing when trying to find an answer.

upload_2016-10-27_0-27-17.png

upload_2016-10-27_0-28-3.png

upload_2016-10-27_0-29-18.png
 

mick

Sire
Bobajobber Bobajobber one aspect i do like about your posts is the screen shots from the Sporting Life from back in those days as they invoke many happy memory's.Some will prob laugh and that's OK but when having a bet i used to cut out the whole race from the SL stick it in a posh scrap book and write my notes underneath .I did so for years and found it most helpful and also now regret binning the lot when ordered to have a clear out.!

I recall you mentioning you subscribe to RI as do i ,have you found any aspects of the product which have helped advance your VDW understanding and what use do you feel he might have made of it.?

Re your above post i spend to much time using RI and as a result sometimes note mistakes they have made so even with computer technology errors still occur.!
 
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Pingman

Colt
Bob,

Welcome back Bob and like you let's hope this remains informative , interesting first post to start, how highly do you rate the importance of this ability rating, obviously it featured a lot in the books and examples and is just part of the jigsaw like the class and CR.

Is it a measurement that you can carry through one race to another to gauge the worth of the run.

Thought I would ask because in all of the VDW discussions and posts and blogs, this is the first time I have seen this be mentioned At the start or I think ,even at all.

Is there any evidence as well that he would have made notes after the days racing, and re worked the AB numbers and thought right, let's see where that horse goes.

I ask because it is like you say hard work keeping everything up to date in context with everything else.

Cheers
 

Bobajobber

Gelding
mick mick The Sporting Life was a fantastic paper, even in its broadsheet format, when I heard that it was shutting up shop I was devastated, because I hated the format of the Racingpost, it did take some time to make the transition, I think a few of the old SL employees had migrated over to RP, it is a lot better than its original format nowadays.
I quit RI a while ago, although I do like it, I thought it was a little outdated in appearance and use, It needs to be more versatile, there is a lot of information in it, but limited use.

Pingman Pingman nice to be back.
The whole logic of the AR is misconstrued by many who assume they understand its use, this evidently is the reason it is not discussed, but also the discussion may of exhausted itself out many years back, a little like a dog chasing its tail if nothing can be made of the discussion. mtoto mtoto is a person who publicly does not advocate it from my own research, he has missed the point, but I am not in the position to want to change his mind anymore, he has found his way and god bless it.
It was VDW that said CLASS is the kingpin and this is 100% unquestionable.
If you could accurately isolate the class of the charge and the class of who it has competed against, surely you could not fail to make money.
VDW definitely compiled his ratings after the results came in, this may of been the next day when he would received his racing newspapers, there is too much information to compile the 3 last races the night before racing, how could he automate it, impossible!, there was no facility to do this back then.
The evidence is in the compiling of the rating, he said it was hard work, but he also said it would easy to do once familiar.
VDW compiles his information on a single race basis, the necessary information is collated and he is then able to spot in advance, any standout bets
 

Pingman

Colt
mick mick The Sporting Life was a fantastic paper, even in its broadsheet format, when I heard that it was shutting up shop I was devastated, because I hated the format of the Racingpost, it did take some time to make the transition, I think a few of the old SL employees had migrated over to RP, it is a lot better than its original format nowadays.
I quit RI a while ago, although I do like it, I thought it was a little outdated in appearance and use, It needs to be more versatile, there is a lot of information in it, but limited use.

Pingman Pingman nice to be back.
The whole logic of the AR is misconstrued by many who assume they understand its use, this evidently is the reason it is not discussed, but also the discussion may of exhausted itself out many years back, a little like a dog chasing its tail if nothing can be made of the discussion. mtoto mtoto is a person who publicly does not advocate it from my own research, he has missed the point, but I am not in the position to want to change his mind anymore, he has found his way and god bless it.
It was VDW that said CLASS is the kingpin and this is 100% unquestionable.
If you could accurately isolate the class of the charge and the class of who it has competed against, surely you could not fail to make money.
VDW definitely compiled his ratings after the results came in, this may of been the next day when he would received his racing newspapers, there is too much information to compile the 3 last races the night before racing, how could he automate it, impossible!, there was no facility to do this back then.
The evidence is in the compiling of the rating, he said it was hard work, but he also said it would easy to do once familiar.
VDW compiles his information on a single race basis, the necessary information is collated and he is then able to spot in advance, any standout bets


Thanks Bob for the response, look forward to more of your posts.

Cheers
 

Pitmatic

Filly
Hi Bobajobber Bobajobber

It's really good to see you back, and I'm looking forward to hearing what you've got to say in this blog, and also contributing when and where I can.

Just to say that I have been on an information gathering exercise over the last 6 months or so - visiting the British Library reading room at Boston Spa on 3 or 4 occasions, in order to gather the Sporting Life info. My most recent visit there was last week.

I'll be visiting again in the coming months to obtain scans of the Sporting Chronicle cards for the races covered until the Sporting Chronicle ceased publication in 1983. I agree entirely with what you say about how good the Sporting Life was, but have to say I am quite shocked at how "basic" the Sporting Chronicle is, when looking at the archive - with the form sections being a massive disappointment. I know that I always preferred the Sporting Life, but had forgotten just how little information (relatively) there was in the Sporting Chronicle.

Don't know what sort of format you got the Sporting Life info in when you visited Colindale?

At Boston Spa you e-mail the info to your own e-mail address in PDF format, which is good quality - just give me a shout if there's anything I may be able to help you out with in this respect.

What has led you to now believe that the Erin numbers are wrong?

VDW did mention the 3 probable for some other races - but didn't actually provide the numbers, as he did for the Erin.

I also have to say that I have just recently re-read the Ultimate Wheil Of Fortune and Betting The VDW Way and was surprised at just how many typos there were in these booklets - which led me to think about the Erin Numbers possibly being typos again (which I would be gutted to find out was the case, if it was!!!!).

Good to see you back posting again anyway......:handgestures-thumbup::handgestures-thumbup::handgestures-thumbup:
 
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Bobajobber

Gelding
Hello Pitmatic Pitmatic

I am really glad to see someone passionate enough to go to the trouble to find the information from the period, it shows a real interest in the subject, I thought I was the only one that was VDW - OCD :)

I remembered my time at Colindale and the fact that it was moving to Boston Spa, I am guessing it is a lot more quieter than the bustling metropolis of London, although the parking at Colindale was OK but you could not park on the one way street it was situated on.
If they have moved the Sporting Chronicle newspapers up to Wetherby, I remember they were broadsheets kept inside a leather bound protective bookcase which was massive and yes the SC was not a great paper for content.
I copied A3 sheets of the Sporting Life from the microfiche, I think there is a few I have missing, I will let you know, I don't need the A3 paper though.....lol

Apologies, with the Erin numbers, I believe the way I showed them in the 'Idiosyncratic' thread was incorrect, only my research proved this, the proper way I believe I also showed in that thread, but I said it was incorrect, confusing to say the least, but the ERIN numbers were never typo's, VDW had plenty of time to put the record straight on that particular subject, they were offered up for others to work out, typo's you can forgive if in place, but surely if they are incorrect, something would of been said?.
The number of people who have ardently said this and that are typo's, the ERIN numbers are a case in point, firstly it makes absolutely no sense if they are incorrect and nobody ever questioned VDW about them, secondly VDW never corrected them if knowing that they were wrong, personally I think they are 100% genuine, in fact I know they are.

The minute you start questioning an aspect of the method, you must find out why by research, if something does not sit with you , there has to be a solid reason why, it is very easy to dismiss something without solid foundation for doing so, if I personally found that something did not sit with me, I would scrutinise it, the brain is a very clever tool, it sends you signals when something does not feel right, it is really asking you to find out why it has doubts.
 

mick

Sire
The minute you start questioning an aspect of the method, you must find out why by research, if something does not sit with you , there has to be a solid reason why, it is very easy to dismiss something without solid foundation for doing so, if I personally found that something did not sit with me, I would scrutinise it, the brain is a very clever tool, it sends you signals when something does not feel right, it is really asking you to find out why it has doubts.
The above i like it is a good benchmark ,a need for any backer VDW or otherwise.We may feel inclined to dismiss perception perhaps rightly so as the more likely answer is experience but you must give the time and effort to earn it.
 

mick

Sire
People going the extra mile to secure evidence and support a thought rings a bell.I recall to many years ago backing a good thing with more money than i should have.It lost and i could not understand why.Weeks later i was reading about a past great race horse and the writer mentioned that the only time it had been beaten was when racing right handed.I checked my good thing and sure enough this aspect fit probable cause.This was long ago and something i had never seen mentioned before.

I sought different evidence and bought a stop watch went to my local running track and got my girl friend to time me doing laps.My times where consistently better running anti clockwise. I can look back and laugh yet this hard earned knowledge has saved and therefore made me plenty since. ;)
 

Pitmatic

Filly
Hi Bobajobber Bobajobber,

VDW - OCD is a very apt description, and at the moment I feel like some sort of obsessive collector.

The British Library has now moved to St Pancras and there is a reading room there, as well as the reading room at Boston Spa. Boston Spa is the most convenient for me and it is very quiet there (sounds a much more relaxed environment than your description of Colindale - and probably how it is at St Pancras).

The Sporting Chronicle is indeed in leather bound books covering 3 month periods - even though the information in the Sporting Chronicle is poor it is still nice to be able to look at the hard copy (although it does leave a musty smell on your hands!!!).

All of the information I have obtained from the Sporting Life is in PDF format (and I therefore have it all held electronically with not a hint of A3 paper!!). At Boston Spa you look at the microfilm through a specialised reader, which puts the images / pages onto a monitor and then you crop what you want and send it to your own e-mail address.

When I go back to scan the hard copies of the Sporting Chronicle, I will be able to scan them to a memory stick in PDF format.

As far as the Sporting Life is concerned the only card I haven't been able to get (due to the microfilm archive of it being smudged) is for Wayward Lad on 26.12.1985 - but I did manage to obtain the form.

When I was at the library last week I'm sure the form I obtained for Minster Son's race on 26.07.1988 was printed incorrectly in the Sporting Life!!! (totally different horses in the form section as opposed to those on the card), but I need to check this out for definite when I come to sorting out that info.

I have also obtained copies of the Daily Mail race cards for all of the races under discussion, and also copies of the Daily Express / Daily Mirror race cards too (Daily Express has a couple of cards missing due to problems with their electronic archive and Daily Mirror archive available is currently only up to end of 1980).

I had, at one point, thought that one set of VDW's own ratings was linked to Formcast in the Daily Mail, but during the gathering of the information it dawned on me that this could not be the case as the Daily Mail did not produce Formcast ratings for lesser meetings on busy days such as Boxing Day and Bank Holidays - and also didn't produce ratings for some of the better NH meetings once the flat season was underway.

More obviously however, the Daily Mail did not have Formcast ratings available for the Erin (Doh!!!!).

On re-reading the Ultimate Wheil Of Fortune & Betting The VDW Way it was good to be able to check out the figures provided against the Sporting Life info in order to verify what was being said - I also noticed that a couple of the ability ratings provided were slightly "out" in comparison to the Sporting Life info (as per the Little Owl example you provided), and that on one occasion a betting forecast provided was from the Daily Mail and not from the Sporting Life.

You are more than welcome to anything that I have - as you have always been more than generous with everyone on the forum. If you PM me with an e-mail address, I will send you whatever you want / feel you need.
 

Jimbo

Filly
People going the extra mile to secure evidence and support a thought rings a bell.I recall to many years ago backing a good thing with more money than i should have.It lost and i could not understand why.Weeks later i was reading about a past great race horse and the writer mentioned that the only time it had been beaten was when racing right handed.I checked my good thing and sure enough this aspect fit probable cause.This was long ago and something i had never seen mentioned before.

I sought different evidence and bought a stop watch went to my local running track and got my girl friend to time me doing laps.My times where consistently better running anti clockwise. I can look back and laugh yet this hard earned knowledge has saved and therefore made me plenty since. ;)
mick mick You should have got your girlfriend to run the laps :D
 

Jimbo

Filly
Hi Bobajobber Bobajobber have really enjoyed reading your posts on other threads so really looking forward to reading your views again and all the best for this thread . The screenshots of The Sporting Life bring back good memories too as it was easily the best racing paper around.
 

OnTheNod

Gelding
I liked the Sporting Life also although i use to throw them out daily, i bet the old copies are worth a few bob now. Also i liked just the few races to check, but sometimes there could be to many on the holiday periods, and then looking through the form books with grubby pages, and the RFHB pages for the current year as well.

But what i miss most is the lower weighted horses in the H'caps sometimes down so low, that was my favourite starting point for good price winners, plus i think the horses were more consistent if they had the conditions to suit them then, i have never done a check on form seqencnces from past to present, i am not one for history much myself but i know some are.
 

OnTheNod

Gelding
I kept the final one have it front of me now,Tue May 12th 1998.I know it is wrong to speak ill of the dead but sod Maxwell.

The headline says 139 years and 36,910 editions.All of this wonderful history sold down the river.

Think i may have the last copy of the SL also, i have stacks of the form books and one Hague Annual as well, i was not keen on the SC newspaper much but purchased one now and then.
 
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