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UK racing - why so few markets offered by the bookies / tote ?

When I open the card of any football match I count about 35 different markets, starting with the 90 minure result.
In horse racing ony four markets (win-E/W-forecast-tricast). In the tote there is also the placepot.
Why is that ?
The companies themselves don't want to answer.
 
In horse racing ony four markets (win-E/W-forecast-tricast). In the tote there is also the placepot.
Why is that ?

On the day of the race and closer to the race generally more markets are available depending on which book you use.
Some I just looked up were offering markets such as :

"horse a vs horse b" Lines
"Horse to win by x lengths .." the longer the winning margin, the longer the odds offered
Place only markets, extended place markets (four places instead of 3, 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 places are sometimes offered in bigger handicap fields.
You can bet on a horse "not to win" or "not to be placed" and often odds are available in a race "without the favorite" or "without x or y horse" Some books also offer "cover bets" so you win if your horse wins, but if it comes second or third or fourth your bet is void and the stake returned.
Horse to finish exactly 2nd or exactly third or exactly fourth, "both horse a and b to place ...
"Either horse a or b to win."

The answer to your question appears to be .... plenty of other markets are available depending on the race and the book that you are using.

Examples above were from bet365 and skybet at the first race at Ascot tomorrow.
 
On the day of the race and closer to the race generally more markets are available depending on which book you use.
Some I just looked up were offering markets such as :

"horse a vs horse b" Lines
"Horse to win by x lengths .." the longer the winning margin, the longer the odds offered
Place only markets, extended place markets (four places instead of 3, 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 places are sometimes offered in bigger handicap fields.
You can bet on a horse "not to win" or "not to be placed" and often odds are available in a race "without the favorite" or "without x or y horse" Some books also offer "cover bets" so you win if your horse wins, but if it comes second or third or fourth your bet is void and the stake returned.
Horse to finish exactly 2nd or exactly third or exactly fourth, "both horse a and b to place ...
"Either horse a or b to win."

The answer to your question appears to be .... plenty of other markets are available depending on the race and the book that you are using.

Examples above were from bet365 and skybet at the first race at Ascot tomorrow.

Those are silly markets, like the swinger offered by the tote.
But explain me this:
Why not trios and quinellas, quinella doubles ?
Those were the popular bets in Greece.
Before 2010 they did not want UK in the national circuit. The company operating the pool tried to have Ascot 2008 broadcasted - they thought it might be good advertisement if they started to broadcast international events of high prestige. The jockey club intervened and it was cancelled, no foreign racing they said. But two years later they changed their mind so both UK and France were introduced through bilateral agreements.
So from 2010 to 2016 we had Greek-UK- French and also South Africa was added.
France was very popular as they came first but UK slowly overtook France. South Africa third in popularity.
The betting was conducted with local rules, local pool, local markets so everyone was more or less happy.
Then in 2016 all changed. Common pool and fewer markets available and the market dwindles !
In 2015 when it was UK racing day the attendance in betting shops was 60-70% compared to Greek racing days.
Now it is 0-10% !
One day I walked into a betting shop and I wanted to place a bet on a race from Lingfield. The shopkeeper takes the money and he says to
me "ok matey, you want me to turn the tv on so you can watch it ?" !
Though I don't like the common pool system, they could easily introduce quinella and trio even under the common pool system. Just add a square in the ticket where we tick if we want our forecast-tricast selections to be dutched. The dutching operation gives an exact result even under the mutuel system.
I m' trying to figure out why but nobody gives an answer and I don't know of any company who likes to see its customers walk away !
It cannot be that the UK tote would lose money either. Let's say they are in for 3% of the take, they would be in for 3% of the take anyway. But
with fewer customers they too are surely losing money.
Now sometime in 2011 I heard of a French representative who was moaning because we had tetracasts and in France they don't do tetracasts.
But no further info as to why the Frenchman objected and if in fact the story was true. So it's a mystery.
 
Why not trios and quinellas, quinella doubles

You asked why not more markets, i listed lots and you claim they are "silly"
Real bookmakers have little interest in tote markets, why would they? They make a tiny amount from the turnover. A punter may as well play the fruit machines, they are also programmed to pay out only 85 cents for every 100 they take in.
Betting on a race without knowing the odds that you are getting until after the result is known cannot be a healthy way to bet.
So, to answer your question, why are there not more markets.
There are .. lots and lots ... just not the one that you specifically want.
 
You asked why not more markets, i listed lots and you claim they are "silly"
Real bookmakers have little interest in tote markets, why would they? They make a tiny amount from the turnover. A punter may as well play the fruit machines, they are also programmed to pay out only 85 cents for every 100 they take in.
Betting on a race without knowing the odds that you are getting until after the result is known cannot be a healthy way to bet.
So, to answer your question, why are there not more markets.
There are .. lots and lots ... just not the one that you specifically want.

Well, first of all the experienced punter in the mutuel knows what he's getting.
I bet with a friend once. 12.23 I said before the call, 12.19 he said. It was 12.20 - he won.
The commonly favoured fixed odds market is the reason for our woes - limitations and all.
Anyway it's what the customer wants really, is n't it, if the take is the same for the shop.
So what might be the solution to our mystery ?

But with fixed odds too forecasts can be dutched. It takes a little time though to do that and I don't like it.
In football when I play "double chance" I always dutch. The prices they give for "home or draw" etc are always a little lower than what
comes out by dutching. It's a kind of legal cheat so I always dutch and make two bets.
 
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The commonly favoured fixed odds market is the reason for our woes

Certainly in uk racing, using the tote pools will result in lower odds than SP 95% of the time.
Not knowing what odds you will get until after the race has run, combined with lower odds than you can get elsewhere 95% of time is criminal.
 
Certainly in uk racing, using the tote pools will result in lower odds than SP 95% of the time.
Not knowing what odds you will get until after the race has run, combined with lower odds than you can get elsewhere 95% of time is criminal.

First of all we are assuming the take percentages are the same with one method or the other.
It's criminal when some ignorant punters say that the tote takes away 15% and the bookies 10% so that means the bookies are better.
So if I have only two tanks with which to fight Putin, it means that the hand held rifle is a better weapon !
Anyway what I 'm looking for in this thread is a solution of the Greek mystery.
 
There is an unconfirmed sort of whisper that the bookie companies don't like to have many types of markets as this might make it difficult for them to burn money on course and the tote also don't like because it is controlled by the bookies.
 
I believe in the UK, that if you best using Tote online, you are currently guaranteed to get a better price than industry SP, (by at least 10%). A fairly new initiative by the Tote.
 
I don't really understand this thread, but, I do know that the Tote in UK pay the same as bookmaker's SP.
So, for all those who insist we must" beat SP" and "get value", the Tote would seem to be out.

Personally, I'd like to be able to re-join the Tote, but, I cannot meet their criteria ( which are fkn stupid, imo, bc most of my data is just the same as when I was a member for decades).

I have to faff about writing lines in boxes on slips that are often hidden away near the fruit machines etc.

The only improvement from their side is the equalising of the odds with industrial SP.

And, something I'd like from them , but, will never get, is the facility to do multiple place bets ( roll ups etc) with ease.:)
 
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