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This Forum

Start with the 4/5 day entries, sort by the master speed rating.
Look at the past race history,trainers record in the race. Then looking at the horse form over c/d left /right track records form from the last race working out
 
..... most probably like me and why I don't bet much on horses these days. I simply have not got a clue. I would not have the first idea on how to read form and what to look at on a racecard. It all looks far too cumbersome for my Grey cells, and the days when I used to have a dabble were strictly on gut feeling, or the horse having a nice grand name. Pitiful when you look back and the things you used to get up to. :eek:
 
pinemarten pinemarten
Agree he is currently topped out at 79 but would you not think a good jockey would get around the field size he looks an easy ride judging by the number of jockeys

T tacker his Wolves races ? been drawn OK twice - was not backed to win on the occasion of worst draw -

Would not back him without TTie - Looks to be a back end of the year type . but not really tested early on? - 7F - 1m1F horse - likes to win

Looks progressive - average 3 best wins 76 - they are holding him back
Having had another look i'm of the view there's nothing remarkable about his profile, don't know the sire and his nursery win off 54 was ok but he has won at eps twice, first win by 9L so obviously trainer ran him under a penalty 6LB but clearly improved to pick up 2 more handicaps inc a DHT with BACARAT and a mark of around 80 looks to be his cieling but i'm still of the view the handicapper has been fair and a 6 win career is doing very well for such an ordinary horse.
 
Hi O Outlander When you say "form"? "can have many meanings" I would simply add that imo it encompasses all aspects whether it be times, groUnd or whatever else you might want to incorporate into the mix. You mention memory and yes that would be a good reason for reading form so has to refresh one's memory or more likely learning. RATING'S not for me i'm happy working of the OR simply because they are real and what connection are using i presume and again becomes part of the jigsaw you mention.
"IMMAGINATION,FLAIR, CREATIVITY" .............I deny it.
 
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view there's nothing remarkable about his profile
Well we cannot have that or any opinion with reading the form and that was your question

"IMMAGINATION,FLAIR, CREATIVITY"
Personally not sure they have a part to play in form reading - 2nd guessing trainers is the way to the poor house

[
Form.... what is form ?
I think it can have many meanings
How do we quantify form,

if you want to do it you have to start somewhere - where you start is up to the individual - but you have start in order to finish
 
Well we cannot have that or any opinion with reading the form and that was your question


Personally not sure they have a part to play in form reading - 2nd guessing trainers is the way to the poor house

[


if you want to do it you have to start somewhere - where you start is up to the individual - but you have start in order to finish
Hi markfinn markfinn ,
I don't quite follow your first point and other was a lighthearted response to what O Outlander said about "flair" etc..
 
A lot of form reading is done between between the lines as you know
I used to frequent Haydock, Chester, Uttoxeter and Pontefract on a regular basis, i used to always watch the horse go down to the start listen to the noise they made and look at the balance between pulling and being asleep, I backed loads of winners from this I still remember the names of them and the prices despite my poor memory, Hey Cottage , Crimpsall, Cathedral Peak, Tycoons Last, Millpond Boy, Vicario Di Bray , Per Quod amongst them but the thing that always amazed me was all the juicy winners I got from looking at the horses were all at Haydock, I cant remember a single instance where I picked any winners this way at the other courses I went to.
Nothing to do with form but just thinking back to what I used to do when I actually was capable of backing winners, unfortunately this is a much rarer occurrence nowadays.
 
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I used to frequent Haydock, Chester, Uttoxeter and Pontefract on a regular basis, i used to always watch the horse go down to the start listen to the noise they made and look at the balance between pulling and being asleep, I backed loads of winners from this I still remember the names of them and the prices despite my poor memory, Hey Cottage , Crimpsall, Catherine’s Peak, Tycoons Last, Millpond Boy, Vicario Di Bray , Per Quod amongst them but the thing that always amazed me was all the juicy winners I got from looking at the horses were all at Haydock, I cant remember a single instance where I picked any winners this way at the other courses I went to.
Nothing to do with form but just thinking back to what I used to do when I actually was capable of backing winners, unfortunately this is a much rarer occurrence nowadays.
'Horses for courses' perhaps. My guess is that somehow without consciously being aware of it you got a 'feel' for what was required at that particular course.
 
O Outlander,

Interesting read.

I only go racing a handful of times each year, these days it is usually Doncaster, occasionally Pontefract & York.

When I lived in Harrogate for ten years I went to many more York meets & Ripon was only 9 miles away.

I do not & never will class myself as a paddock judge but I too have backed a number of winners when at the races having seen the horse in the paddock and / or going to post.

I have lost count of the number of Gosden runners I have seen in the paddock at Donny that are just about asleep.
Yet when they go to post they come alive.

An obvious one but seeing the Aiden O Brien runners at the Racing Post Trophy meeting is always a pleasure.

Both Saxon Warrior & Magna Grecia were IMHO wonderful looking colts.

Not been to a meeting since Auxerre bolted up in last year's Lincoln & I have really missed it.

Regards,
 
O Outlander,

Interesting read.

I only go racing a handful of times each year, these days it is usually Doncaster, occasionally Pontefract & York.

When I lived in Harrogate for ten years I went to many more York meets & Ripon was only 9 miles away.

I do not & never will class myself as a paddock judge but I too have backed a number of winners when at the races having seen the horse in the paddock and / or going to post.

I have lost count of the number of Gosden runners I have seen in the paddock at Donny that are just about asleep.
Yet when they go to post they come alive.

An obvious one but seeing the Aiden O Brien runners at the Racing Post Trophy meeting is always a pleasure.

Both Saxon Warrior & Magna Grecia were IMHO wonderful looking colts.

Not been to a meeting since Auxerre bolted up in last year's Lincoln & I have really missed it.

Regards,
Been to York a few times loved the course and the area , Doncaster only went once when Brian Boru won the St Leger, didn’t back a winners, the roads to there were long and straight and even longer on the way back, the only classic I ever saw in the flesh , seen some great jumpers at Haydock Twin Oaks , Jodami, Sabin Du Loir etc
But never seen anything like Dayjur in the flesh came past me up the near rail about a furlong out at Haydock and you could literally feel the speed, it was like a flash and the best racehorse I managed to see at a course, really was something special. Also my personal favourite was Mtoto, backed it when it won its maiden at Haydock and followed it all it’s career, a fantastic sight always sprinting from last to first, a great turn of foot.
 
Data Protection's profile suggests he needs

Good To soft or quicker
Distance of 7f-9f
Needs to race in high summer, June, July, August
Needs to wear a tongue tie
Needs single figure fields
Official rating less than 80.

That is what Data Protection needs. The key is his opposition.

Data Protection had these conditions when second to Surrey Hope.

Surrey Hope's form.

1588534989548.png

Surrey Hope was a very inconsistant horse but just 12 months before that win at Epsom he had been rated in the 90s. His first two races for Hughie Morrison didn't alert us to what was to come. But the handicapper took a major chance dropping Surrey Hope 6lbs to 80 which meant he could run in a 0-80. He was 2-3 in 0-80 before that race. Here we had a horse that was third in a 0-100 off 96 in May 2018 and third off 95 in a 0-95 carrying 9-7, now carrying 9-12 in a 0-80. The horse's profile suggested he needed a distance of 7f-8f and good or good to firm ground.

It may have looked the day for Data Protection but doing the work on the race found Surrey Hope and that meant the race was swerved. A waste of time. Absolutely not.
 
Cracking post as ever mlmrob mlmrob.

But DP then gets beaten at Ponty in what looks a less competitive race than LTO?

Yes he carries 3 lbs more & concedes 7 lbs to Hammer Gun who had LTO finished 2nd @ Donny in the Legends race.

Surprised DP was not shorter in the betting.

Was DP consider as a bet here?

Admittedly, although beaten the 2nd place here still looked a good run relative to his next outing at Newmarket.

The one & only time DP had been asked to run in a Class 2 (hardly that) & in hindsight what a spot / placement by the trainer to take a 31k pot.

The opposition here looked far less a test than what DP faced at Epsom.

Regards,
 
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Data Protection's profile suggests he needs

Good To soft or quicker
Distance of 7f-9f
Needs to race in high summer, June, July, August
Needs to wear a tongue tie
Needs single figure fields
Official rating less than 80.

That is what Data Protection needs. The key is his opposition.

Data Protection had these conditions when second to Surrey Hope.

Surrey Hope's form.

View attachment 83965

Surrey Hope was a very inconsistant horse but just 12 months before that win at Epsom he had been rated in the 90s. His first two races for Hughie Morrison didn't alert us to what was to come. But the handicapper took a major chance dropping Surrey Hope 6lbs to 80 which meant he could run in a 0-80. He was 2-3 in 0-80 before that race. Here we had a horse that was third in a 0-100 off 96 in May 2018 and third off 95 in a 0-95 carrying 9-7, now carrying 9-12 in a 0-80. The horse's profile suggested he needed a distance of 7f-8f and good or good to firm ground.

It may have looked the day for Data Protection but doing the work on the race found Surrey Hope and that meant the race was swerved. A waste of time. Absolutely not.
mlmrob mlmrob
While i do admire the thoroughness and agree that it suggests DATA PROTECTION might need the things you outlined but i'm not nearly as confident he actually requires those things to win his races but it's not important what i think it is what works for you and very much so.
 
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