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So why have we still got bookmakers??????

Betting exchanges have been banned allover Europe and in the US.
I don't understand the logic.
They used to say that lay is an "immoral" kind of betting.
But every lay is equivalent to a back. The bookie sites could have a button saying "dutch selections" that computes the returns of the equivalent back combination of bets.
So is the button "dutch selections" prohibited ?
Then the double chances in football, 1X-X2-21, are also illegal and maybe it should be illegal for me to create the double chance 1X by myself !
So we have a hybrid law.
Maybe what is really prohibited is to have low take off percentage.
So bookies are allowed to steal but not steal less than they do !
The exchanges were stupid because in all the trials that took place in the European courts their legal representatives were patented idiots.
They might have also done away with the term "betting exchange" altogether.
When betfair was created they might have said "we are betfair - your new friendly bookmaker".
In the event we have no legal representation. That's the problem.
 
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Rodeneal

Yearling
Whilst, I have really enjoying reading this thread, I wonder if some of us are missing a simple fact, if there were not any bookies or exchanges, would we have modern televised sports, to bet on?

It widely believed, if there no bookies, there would be no horse racing. The bookies pay the race track owners to show races in their shops and stream on line. Last year, when the maximum stake you could place for Fixed Odds Betting Terminals (FOBT) was reduced Arena Racing Company (ARC) tried to reduce the prize money they were willing to pay, leading to a boycott of their tracks by trainers and owners.

Consider, the amount the bookies spend on advertising during a Premiership or Championship match. Obviously, this revenue that goes to the broadcasters is, at least in part, passed onto the football teams or league in the form of broadcasting rights.

So instead of why do we need bookies, should we ask, are bookies a necessary evil?
 

mick

Sire
Rodeneal Rodeneal I think what Racings rulers tend to forget is that without us punters there would be no Bookmakers. Back in the day when the Jockey Club ruled imo they viewed punters as a necessary evil and under the current BHA i suspect that behind closed doors a simular attitude exists.

I like a low profile peaceful life but increasingly the thought of a national punters strike appeals because we are important but are being messed on. Perhaps a forlorn hope but imagine the impact and lets be honest the majority of those participating would actually save money during the period.
 

Rodeneal

Yearling
Rodeneal Rodeneal I think what Racings rulers tend to forget is that without us punters there would be no Bookmakers. Back in the day when the Jockey Club ruled imo they viewed punters as a necessary evil and under the current BHA i suspect that behind closed doors a simular attitude exists.

I like a low profile peaceful life but increasingly the thought of a national punters strike appeals because we are important but are being messed on. Perhaps a forlorn hope but imagine the impact and lets be honest the majority of those participating would actually save money during the period.
Had to laugh when I read this, if we all went on strike for a day or two, i would have to listen to the missus during races and matches and we can't have that!
 

pawras

Colt
I like having the combo of bookies , exchanges and the tote, (although flutter has far far too much of a monopoly for my tastess) without such competition I think punters would get treated worse than they do already, which imo is with general disdain by all sides.

Perhaps that justice for punters group should look into setting up their own exchange with the tagline "By Punters For Punters" or " For Punters By Punters", which ever is viewed as most catchy, I'd invest in a venture like that.
 
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pawras

Colt
People taking their money elsewhere is the only way layers will adjust their attitude without very specific legislation.
 

pawras

Colt
I like having the combo of bookies , exchanges and the tote, (although flutter has far far too much of a monopoly for my tastess) without such competition I think punters would get treated worse than they do already, which imo is with general disdain by all sides.

Perhaps that justice for punters group should look into setting up their own exchange with the tagline "By Punters For Punters" or " For Punters By Punters", which ever is viewed as most catchy, I'd invest in a venture like that.

Such a venture would need some decent memorandum and articles of association re being non profit and not available for sale i.e. to anyone coming with a big cheque wanting to buy out competition they don't want.
 
We 're not against bookies.
That's right wing smear campaign against the peoples party that is !
We are against governments allowing exploitation and also against the foolish decisions of company managers sometimes.
Examples of the the latter in my case are the foolish decision to take the Greek race course from Faliron to a faraway place, Markopoulo Attica and also the other stupid decision not to create an internet platform. Because of petty interests the Greek races are the only ones in the world withouth internet betting platform.
 
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Rodeneal

Yearling
Betting exchanges have been banned allover Europe and in the US.
I don't understand the logic.
They used to say that lay is an "immoral" kind of betting.
But every lay is equivalent to a back. The bookie sites could have a button saying "dutch selections" that computes the returns of the equivalent back combination of bets.
So is the button "dutch selections" prohibited ?
Then the double chances in football, 1X-X2-21, are also illegal and maybe it should be illegal for me to create the double chance 1X by myself !
So we have a hybrid law.
Maybe what is really prohibited is to have low take off percentage.
So bookies are allowed to steal but not steal less than they do !
The exchanges were stupid because in all the trials that took place in the European courts their legal representatives were patented idiots.
They might have also done away with the term "betting exchange" altogether.
When betfair was created they might have said "we are betfair - your new friendly bookmaker".
In the event we have no legal representation. That's the problem.
I think we may be over thinking this.

The UK has one of the least regulated betting industries in the world. Also, one of the most advanced. That has changed some over the last couple of years e.g. the reduction in the FOBT maximum stake and the ban on using credit cards.

We can use exchanges and get best odds guaranteed. In loads of countries UK bookie websites and exchanges are banned. I did a wee bit of research a while ago, it turns out that, for example, most countries in Europe control and own the bookie - note singular. The government's of these countries use their bookie as another form tax.

I would rather have the choice that we have than, than just one fixed odds bookie.
 
I think we may be over thinking this.

The UK has one of the least regulated betting industries in the world. Also, one of the most advanced. That has changed some over the last couple of years e.g. the reduction in the FOBT maximum stake and the ban on using credit cards.

We can use exchanges and get best odds guaranteed. In loads of countries UK bookie websites and exchanges are banned. I did a wee bit of research a while ago, it turns out that, for example, most countries in Europe control and own the bookie - note singular. The government's of these countries use their bookie as another form tax.

I would rather have the choice that we have than, than just one fixed odds bookie.
Aber naturalich.
But also laws that prevent excesses from their part and ensure fair play.
Well. here we go round the mullbery bush again.
Don't make me reiterate the story of the ancient pools thief again and the cops who were hidden in the closets.
 
Soho 1978, Greek street. A card box in the middle of the street, three miserable old men over it. The three card trick.
The one who was shuffling the cards was reciting a little poem "salute the king, salute the queen and bow your back to the kaiserine".
Must be from world war one.
I approach them and say "you play me for 5p ?".
They did n't like -it was too small money- they says "wrowwwr, wrowwwr, ger off son".
A bobby is sighted, they all turn around and disappear in split seconds.
The cardboard box is kicked away and is flattened out of shape so it does n't look like a box anymore.
The bobby comes, looks right then left, sees nothing, continues his beat unperturbed.

London 2018, Hilton Hotel. The same -apparently- old men in two piece suits. The reception dinner is luscious. Includes pieces
of fried octopus made into kebap sticks. Carlsbergs-Heinekens for everybody. The installation of the same three card trick in
mechanical form in all the pubs and kindergarten of London town is being discussed. A government deputy minister salutes the convention.
 

kenny jones

Yearling
The USA is a bit of a paradox,I believe you can only bet at the racecourses there and the high street shops dont exist.Trump is about to get in for another term perhaps he will deregualte gambling like they have done in Wall Street.
Kenny
 
The USA is a bit of a paradox,I believe you can only bet at the racecourses there and the high street shops dont exist.Trump is about to get in for another term perhaps he will deregualte gambling like they have done in Wall Street.
Kenny
Trump got back up ?
They were saying Obama was going to do something in his second term but nothing happened.
I don't know what Trump things about betting companies. Following his cure of the covid using antiseptic it's difficult to understand.
However it was G.W. Bush when betfair was banned (the Goodlatte legislation).
 

Rodeneal

Yearling
Trump got back up ?
They were saying Obama was going to do something in his second term but nothing happened.
I don't know what Trump things about betting companies. Following his cure of the covid using antiseptic it's difficult to understand.
However it was G.W. Bush when betfair was banned (the Goodlatte legislation).
You are correct about no high street bookies in the States. You can indeed bet on course.

Politics aside, the big danger in the US is the pub bookie. A fella who will take your bets, maybe on credit, and break your knees or wont pay up if you win.

I was asked by an American relative if British bookies paid up, short answer was yes!

lets be careful what we wish for.
 

StuartH

Filly
You are correct about no high street bookies in the States. You can indeed bet on course.

Politics aside, the big danger in the US is the pub bookie. A fella who will take your bets, maybe on credit, and break your knees or wont pay up if you win.

I was asked by an American relative if British bookies paid up, short answer was yes!

lets be careful what we wish for.
Most of the casinos in Las Vegas have sports books ie betting shops ,where you can bet on most sports and as far as I am aware still have OTB off track betting in a lot of the states legally
 
The illegal bookies I knew were nice guys.
I don't know about breakig of knees, I doubt it.
Last time I 've been to a joint there was that character who was placing bets for UK races of the order of 1000 quid over the phone. He was calling from a plastic bed in the sea as we were told ! All bets lost and he never paid. The character was a fellow bookie really.
Then I placed a bet on France winning the 1998 world cup.
When I went to collect the man said "I can't find it in my notebook". I say "geroff, search well" and he says in the end "ah here it is, in the margin" and he paid up.
But he was a good guy really. He traveled to Europe and when he came back he brought us gifts from the duty free.
 
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