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Questions and Answers

kralken

Filly
Hi guys i thought i would start a thread where people can ask questions about horse racing, and hopefully the more knowledgeable people can answer.
If this has been done elsewhere please can it be transferred to the correct thread. many thanks.
It is not meant as a way of trying to get people to give their secrets away its just questions or queries on racing matters.
 

kralken

Filly
Ok so could someone please answer me this question When adopting the Vdw Ability do you just use the prize money for the same code or the whole winning prize money also for the form figures all codes or code specific .
 

Sandhog

Filly
Good question, @K.
I don't know about vdw, but, your question made me wonder whether there's possible value in checking where exactly wins were gained: what code, what class etc.
Grand National winners, Gold Cup winners, and Derby winners may all have pretty skewed, but, good figures, though, I wouldn't think these would be much help "across codes".

You;ll need an expert to answer your question.
Good luck!
 

markfinn

Sire
Ok so could someone please answer me this question When adopting the Vdw Ability do you just use the prize money for the same code or the whole winning prize money also for the form figures all codes or code specific .
Dont use it but would suggest - look at last 2 years removing biggest and smallest and then average the total ?
 

mick

Sire
Ok so could someone please answer me this question When adopting the Vdw Ability do you just use the prize money for the same code or the whole winning prize money also for the form figures all codes or code specific .
An interesting question and as per S Sandhog above i can only answer in a non vdw way. When considering using any aspect of form as part of enabling a bet my preference is to use like for like. A basic example your horse of interest is contesting a 7 fur 0-85 all aged Hcap on soft and it has won well previously on soft but that was a class 5 2yo maiden over 6 fur, is this evidence that soft is a positive or even suitable. ?

Having said the above there is no reason why an all in look cannot be useful to obtain a general over view of the animal, but drilling down and additional thinking can often paint a different picture.? The downside of the vdw ability rating is that often a horses best run (s) will come when beaten.
 
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mick

Sire
Recently I was reading that its not a good Idea to back apprentices until they have clocked around 100 races - any thoughts
When i have a horse of interest who is apprentice ridden then i profile the rider seeking the answers to several questions. Yours is a new one on me and i guess the obvious answer is its a positive Re experience, but the straighter would be what has occurred during those 100 races and likewise for those who have yet to reach this milestone.

I have mentioned previously swerving what would have been a 33/1 winner on the grounds that the young apprentice had only a few previous rides and none of them winners. The best lessons in this game are those which cost us money.?
 

tacker

Mare
Away from forums can anyone point to where vdw gets a mention, ATR ? RACING TV ? ITV RACING ? NICK LUCK SHOW ? RACING DEBATE ?
I can't think of any Trainer, Jockey, racing "celebrity" , any mainstream broadcaster etc...

so my Question is ....Why is it that so many punters on forums are absorbed by vdw ?
 

markfinn

Sire
Away from forums can anyone point to where vdw gets a mention, ATR ? RACING TV ? ITV RACING ? NICK LUCK SHOW ? RACING DEBATE ?
I can't think of any Trainer, Jockey, racing "celebrity" , any mainstream broadcaster etc...

so my Question is ....Why is it that so many punters on forums are absorbed by vdw ?
Hi Tack - Think you may be confusing Value of winnings ££ which is what is being discussed above - with the Van Der Wheil method which is what you read on forums and was the basis of books and pamphlets ? and could cause a fight in church
 

markfinn

Sire
When i have a horse of interest who is apprentice ridden then i profile the rider seeking the answers to several questions. Yours is a new one on me and i guess the obvious answer is its a positive Re experience, but the straighter would be what has occurred during those 100 races and likewise for those who have yet to reach this milestone.

I have mentioned previously swerving what would have been a 33/1 winner on the grounds that the young apprentice had only a few previous rides and none of them winners. The best lessons in this game are those which cost us money.?
Interesting that Pat Eddery never rode a winner until 80th ride - suppose its another about what the trainer will allow.
 

mick

Sire
Away from forums can anyone point to where vdw gets a mention, ATR ? RACING TV ? ITV RACING ? NICK LUCK SHOW ? RACING DEBATE ?
I can't think of any Trainer, Jockey, racing "celebrity" , any mainstream broadcaster etc...

so my Question is ....Why is it that so many punters on forums are absorbed by vdw ?
I can only answer from my perspective, i was around when his first letters where published and the way he presented them was compelling, claiming a very high S/r at decent avg prices, and hinting that anyone could achieve this. I bought into his thinking and spent too long attempting to understand it to emulate this success via future races and i failed, but this Carrot maybe why currently even newbies to the game take an interest in his method and forums enable this. ?
 
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tacker

Mare
Hi Tack - Think you may be confusing Value of winnings ££ which is what is being discussed above - with the Van Der Wheil method which is what you read on forums and was the basis of books and pamphlets ? and could cause a fight in church
Thread title says "Questions and Answers" and that's a question, I could have added churches, pubs, bars, clubs etc...
 

tacker

Mare

mick

Sire
It is not meant as a way of trying to get people to give their secrets away its just questions or queries on racing matters.
Well done a good idea for a thread. I wonder if there are any holy grail aspects which should be kept secret.? I like to feel that some of my thinking is original or at least minority thinking but i have shared all of it via different threads on this forum and during this 7 year period the avg price of my wagers has increased.

I feel the bottom line Re sharing might be does the sharer feel this is being reciprocated, and this is less down to knowledge but more so effort. ? Lurkers who may feel smug about gaining knowledge without effort are in fact Losers because if they do not engage Re what has been offered then they will never understand how to get the best from it.
 
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kralken

Filly
So would the form be done the same way hdl for hdl chse foe chse etc as 3 wins in hdls does not mean you could do the same in the chses surely like for like would be as in all weather and flat you dont use all weather form for flat or vice versa . And tough one with the apprentices i had 7lb claimer on a horse was beaten out of sight the next race on the card he won really is a tough call .
 
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markfinn

Sire
So would the form be done the same way hdl for hdl chse foe chse etc as 3 wins in hdls does not mean you could do the same in the chses surely like for like would be as in all weather and flat you dont use all weather form for flat or vice versa . And tough one with the apprentices i had 7lb claimer on a horse was beaten out of sight the next race on the card he won really is a tough call .
Yes I use same ideas and spread for all races only the ratings that change - CD going age all relevant to horse's
 

pawras

Gelding
I don't tend to get involved in anything vdw cos I'm not interested in the believers vs heretics back and forth. I don't use the 'ability rating' but instead pounds per run i.e. cos of this I posted here at some point early 2019 I think. Shows the strike rate blindly backing the top rated for each of the 3 ratings from a dataset of nearly 20yrs of races.

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