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Is trading just a very clever techno way of losing your old fasioned shirt :)

We are all trading in one way or another if you are putting your money at risk in the markets.

I don't see the point in 'slagging off' what others choose to do just because you don't understand it.
It lowers the tone of this forum quite frankly.
 
nicksar nicksar Was this the trading challenge from Mikey B where the short legged omnivore chose instead, to go for a walk in the park because it was a 'nice day'?

One of them knew the time of day and went on to become a full time trader in the City.

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"
 
retriever said:
We are all trading in one way or another if you are putting your money at risk in the markets.

I don't see the point in 'slagging off' what others choose to do just because you don't understand it.
It lowers the tone of this forum quite frankly.
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I am only interested in how they do it tbh... Because i have tried it a few times and its bloody hard work BUT there are plenty who do as the betangel forum tells you that.
 
When I've dabbled with trading it's only ever been with small amounts so that when it came to the fkups I could just go meh!

It's possible to make money at it but requires a lot of a discipline , concentration , time and effort. So fair play to those who actually do it and make more than petrol money rather than try and sell pipe dreams to others.

From my play about now and again it seems like unless you are making big swing trades i.e. dobbing type things which have a higher risk of failing, then you are working to very small margins which require either large volumes (sitting at your screen all day) or big stakes which you can only get on in the last 10 mins or so for most races.

Also you are in a game of robot wars which can be much quicker than you but are restricted by their programming, but worse still you are up against the betfair house robots which will have no latency and be able to jump the queue etc.
 
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I have done some limited "trading" both in pre race horses and futures stock markets - most time you will have your pants pulled down unless you are very very lucky. Bots tend to screw with the markets and you will never truly read them - that said you can indeed spot spoof money or patterns on occasion but it does require much more time and effort and concentration to get it right and not cop so many of the bad ones running against without a stop loss to make it pay enough to be worth the risk imo - but good luck to those that genuinely can - we all have different MOs - doesn't make mine more right or more wrong than theirs - just different
 
I suppose it comes down to a question of degrees.As has been said here at the end of the day it is all gambling,but IMHO trading is just plain mugging.
good luck
kenny
 
Hmmmmm,

I stay away from gambling trading systems. Probably, not for any of the reasons mentioned above.

I worked in the City for many years. I wrote software for Foreign Exchange (FX) and Bonds trading systems.
If you don't know your market inside out and have a very, very large bank, you will beat you head against a brick wall for very little profit.

Going through this thread, I saw the term PIP mentioned a couple of times. For clarity, a PIP is a 100th of a percent.

Without doing the maths, imagine, how big your bank would have to be to earn, even £10 pounds from a single race?
 
I always thought that one PIP was one unit movement in the scale of the odds, currency or market being used.

So, on the Betfair market one pip is the movement between odds of 2.02 > 2.04.
Likewise, one pip from odds of 55 is 60.
 
retriever said:
We are all trading in one way or another if you are putting your money at risk in the markets.

I don't see the point in 'slagging off' what others choose to do just because you don't understand it.
It lowers the tone of this forum quite frankly.
Click to expand...
HI Retriever
I dont think anyone is slagging off others.Personally I am highlighting the fact Trading is a strange hydrid of the exchanges.You dont have to know a great deal about trading to see that it is a hiding to nothing,especially if you have a long association with the game and understand odds.There are plenty of snake oil salesmen sprung up around this new noble art,as I say not one of them could hold their own if challenged to say a month(or more) of live trading,because it they could do it then they would have done it by now.I would not encourage anyone to gamble until they have studied form and developed a good knowledge base.With trading you could have all of that and still be pissing in the wind.It is a game of glorified snakes and ladders.
good luck
Kenny
 
retriever said:
I always thought that one PIP was one unit movement in the scale of the odds, currency or market being used.

So, on the Betfair market one pip is the movement between odds of 2.02 > 2.04.
Likewise, one pip from odds of 55 is 60.
Click to expand...
A pip is something you get in oranges and apples :) :) :)
 
Well, it's just that using phrases like 'just makes me laugh' and 'is just bollocks' seems a bit uncalled for really.
Ewe do wonder what going on with some of the threads on here sometimes.
kenny jones said:
especially if you have a long association with the game and understand odds
Click to expand...
So do you? Have a long association with the game and understand odds?
 
retriever said:
I always thought that one PIP was one unit movement in the scale of the odds, currency or market being used.

So, on the Betfair market one pip is the movement between odds of 2.02 > 2.04.
Likewise, one pip from odds of 55 is 60.
Click to expand...
You need to have a basis for said movement, if sticking to trading systems. How big would my bet have to be to earn £10, if odds moved from 2.02 > 2.04, assuming you are trading, not waiting for the actual outcome of the race? In FX terms 2.02 > 2.04 is indeed a PIP.

And now we move into jargon. To me a PIP is a Price Interest Point, when referring to FX trading. I am going to make a wild guess here, do the exchanges base their systems on FX trading systems? The FX market moves as fast as a horse race.

If we don't have the same measuring stick, terminology, market etc, we all may be right but sound like we are talking sh!te to each other!
 
retriever said:
Well, it's just that using phrases like 'just makes me laugh' and 'is just bollocks' seems a bit uncalled for really.
Ewe do wonder what going on with some of the threads on here sometimes.

So do you? Have a long association with the game and understand odds?
Click to expand...
H Retriever,
I just say what I think.OK instead of bollocks..the statistical chance of working out the diretion of the odds in all races every day is somewhere around zero.Its a bit like poker.Technically a game of positive expectation,ultimately it depends on the luck of the cards drawn.But you can lay down your hand and get out without too much financial loss,if on the other hand you get potentailly a good hand you can play to win,likewise with dogs,horses footy ect.You study the form,you take a reasoned chance,actively attempting to reduce the gamble.Trading on the BF is contrary to all that thinking.
Pumped by the snake oil salemen first and foremost is that"you dont need to know anything about horseracing to win at trading"Hmmm..so it's no better than the toss of a coin.Gambling in its crudest form elevated to some sort of precision timing dealing.To return back to the poker example,you play each and every hand regardless of what cards come out.
As regrads my association with the game..well I am 52 now,and used to work in my uncles betting shop as a board marker when I was 18.With round about 30 years of passionate,and sometimes not so passionate involvment with the game I just have a wee inkling about horseracing and the dogs(but not football).I know for certain that getting the right odds is crucial,thats why I only operate on BF,where ultimately and with suprising relative ease you can turn a break even approach to a winning approach,and even a slightly losing or break even "system." into a reasonably winning one.
Not fortunes of course ..I leave that to the traders,in their jags,their penthouses and their dreams :) :) :)
good Luck
ken
 
kenny jones said:
the statistical chance of working out the diretion of the odds in all races every day is somewhere around zero
Click to expand...

That's the beauty of it, you don't have to, you can choose your spot and entry and exit levels and liability. The bookies have to lay at a market that is close to 100%, you don't have to bet into it if you don't want to. ;)
 
kenny jones said:
Hi all
Trading just makes me laugh.I explored a bit while back and just came up laughing all of the time.Stuff like Gruss and Cymatic trader are written especially for traders but I use them just for bet automation.(Brilliant software by the way)
The idea of guessing which way the price will go in a highly defined time frame is just bollocks.I went on a few forums where there seems to be hundreds of newbies telling us they have lost a packet but are "honing" their trading skills.Well I may be a wee bit batty but I would like to get the skillset together that gives me the ability to know which way a price will go(sometimes only a few pips) not in one race but in loads of races all day every day ,then football,the dogs on and on and on.
All this of course is my humble opinion,but I more sceptical about trading than I am about us landing on the moon :) :) :)
god Luck
ken
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Hi,

a good few years ago, i decided to have a look at trading , pric of gold, the dollar, the £, etc etc,

lo & behold....here were all these companies willing to GIVE me all this lucious software for free, which would show me trends,
forecasts, graphs like you wouldnt belive !, etc etc... i was in heaven !!

However, after a while ( and not a penny spent )..i suddenly realised the game, WHY are they GIVING me all this stuff
i asked myself, only to realise the answer..... ( which is conatined in the eddy murphy movie Trading Places ( what a great PUNNY name !! )

basically, the prices you see in the software are NOT the actual prices of the commodities, they are hiked 1 tick up on the
buy price and 1 tick down on the sell price, thus when "you" come along after studying the graphs & trends etc etc,
and think to yourself "i know, im going to buy gold @ 1.25....its going to go up to 1.40 plus...then i can sell it ! "

when you BUY the gold at 1.25.......what happens behind the scenes via your trading broker is that they have just bought
gold @ 1.24 ( the true price at that moment )...and sold it to YOU at 1.25 ( aka.....an instant profit)

in other words, every time you either buy or sell via their trading platform, THEY make a profit.

hence their willingness to give you all the freebies, software, videos showing you HOW to trade etc etc

i see the same thing on betfair, via betangel and the rest.

I should mention, that someone like Gruss software platform is NOT liek the above,

it is simply a good piece of software at a good price, for use on betfair ( and no, i am not affiliated to gruss etc )

hope this helps
 
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