• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
  • There seems to be a problem with some alerts not being emailed to members. I have told the hosts and they are investigating.
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting


    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
    Keep safe.
    AR

Is trading just a very clever techno way of losing your old fasioned shirt :)

kenny jones

Yearling
Hi all
Trading just makes me laugh.I explored a bit while back and just came up laughing all of the time.Stuff like Gruss and Cymatic trader are written especially for traders but I use them just for bet automation.(Brilliant software by the way)
The idea of guessing which way the price will go in a highly defined time frame is just bollocks.I went on a few forums where there seems to be hundreds of newbies telling us they have lost a packet but are "honing" their trading skills.Well I may be a wee bit batty but I would like to get the skillset together that gives me the ability to know which way a price will go(sometimes only a few pips) not in one race but in loads of races all day every day ,then football,the dogs on and on and on.
All this of course is my humble opinion,but I more sceptical about trading than I am about us landing on the moon :) :) :)
god Luck
ken
 

pete

Dam
I more sceptical about trading than I am about us landing on the moon
I tried trading for small stakes for a couple of months around the turn of the year, it is definitely an art form that requires lots of patience and concentration. There are just so many ways to trade a race that its impossible to cover everything on every race. Best to find a way of trading that suits your budget and concentration levels and then watch for when a potential for a trade exists.

I tried pre-market trading looking for horses that would shorten before the off and then getting out with profit or loss before the race begins (less risk but less upside too) I tried in-play trading both back to lay and lay to back, I tried dobbing, I tried concentrating on outsiders, concentrating on short priced favorites, I combined it with pace stats, I combined it with form reading, I went simply off market swings.

I started off dropping my small $50 bank two or three times from in-play trading. Eventually I was able to spot how the market loosens and then tightens on certain horses just before the off, then I was able to spot how, just after the "off" certain types of horses would immediately trade lower until it was obvious that they were not going to win, simply backing horses that are expected to lead or be held up was not necessarily the right move.

It is all about getting a small profit per race. Maybe 5-10% of your stake each time. You start with $10 on a race, I was looking at 50p - a quid profit each time. You get one wrong, and you can drop your entire stake very quickly, pretty much enentire days work gone.

The key is to start (very) small and not try and double your money each time. small steps, protect your bank at all times, if it does not look like its going your way, cash out, take a small loss and live to fight another day.

I really, really enjoyed trading for a couple of months, my main issue was that I am based in the USA, there are no trading platforms and access to the markets are not strictly legal for me, I had to connect via vpn's and it all got slow and clunky. If i lived in the UK i would most definately devote more time to it. It appealed to me.

It can be done, but its certainly not a get rich quick thing. Its a lot of work, its a lot of frustration, its a lot of trial and error, you will need a fairly chunky bank in place if you are going to make real money from it. But it can certainly be done. if you have the time, patience and energy.
 

mick

Sire
I have no knowledge of or interest in Trading but to those who do make it pay i say well done and best of. The majority of my bets are placed in the EP markets and of course even when you can secure BOG there is still a right or wrong time to play, so i do spend additional time attempting to second guess the market something i used to feel i was fairly good at but less so current times. ! This may be down to a decline in my judgement but i also feel the early markets have become increasingly volatile.
 

mick

Sire
I see them all on twitter Peter WEBB Badger and the likes seem trading is like whos got the biggest dick....
I watched some of those youtube Caan Berry clips and he seems a decent bloke, but it crossed my mind that enticing fresh blood liquidity would prove helpful to his income. I also knew someone who paid a large fee to attend a three day trading course and ended up doing a lot of money.
 

footysystems

Gelding
I watched some of those youtube Caan Berry clips and he seems a decent bloke, but it crossed my mind that enticing fresh blood liquidity would prove helpful to his income. I also knew someone who paid a large fee to attend a three day trading course and ended up doing a lot of money.
mick mick why would PEOPLE attend these courses ?? Physcoff what ever his name his does them now £2k a shot lol. Read this forum in detail you would never want for anything again IMO
 

pawras

Colt
As it's talked about so much I was keen to wrap my head around it and understand it so I've dabbled with trading in a few different ways to see if it's all that and a bag of chips i.e. swing trading & scalping according to different rationales.

Because the market is fiendisly accurate, in my experience I'd say you need your own edge just as with straight forward backing and there's no such thing as free money, escpecially in the zero sum game of a betting exchange.

I think those who claim it's easy are more interested in attracting more liquidity and/or running the semi scam of trading courses that have been going for years on spread betting.

IMO trading is just another form of gambling end of whether it's on horse prices or share prices.
 

kenny jones

Yearling
If any of these people who run these trading courses are so confident about their abilities why dont they trade live for a month online to prove how great they are.Yeah and pigs might fly
kenny
 

dave58

Administrator
Good point K kenny jones, we have often made similar comments about horse racing tipsters.
To barstadise a phrase - those that can do, those that can't sell tips to the gullible
 

pete

Dam
those that can do, those that can't sell tips to the gullible
Having said that, its got to be easier selling tips than it has for a pro trying to get on for any kind of decent size bet nowadays.
I'm just not sure the heart would be in it as much if your own money was not on the line.
 
I have done lots (and lots) of pre race trading on Betfair over a good number of years...and have dropped some almighty bollocks along the way,I have never viewed it as anything other than gambling though it's just that it is in a narrower window of time and ( if done properly) in a limited "range" within the market...it requires 100% concentration and is very tiring,you certainly feel drained at the end of a 5 hour straight session and when the tiredness kicks in the liklelihood of dropping a bollock increases exponentially.
There are very few "edges" left now the only edge I have ( if it is an edge) is the ability to spot "spoof" money and make a small profit.
 

footysystems

Gelding
nicksar nicksar totally agree it's a real tough game and a load of bollocks tbh get in 5 mins before the race is off and easy to make money I tried a full year in 2005 what a time I had absolute waste of time and effort. Can you read the market ? I had a great strategy but ended in tears wouldn't waste my time on it after that you cop a bad trade your done.
 
nicksar nicksar totally agree it's a real tough game and a load of bollocks tbh get in 5 mins before the race is off and easy to make money I tried a full year in 2005 what a time I had absolute waste of time and effort. Can you read the market ? I had a great strategy but ended in tears wouldn't waste my time on it after that you cop a bad trade your done.
Nothing worse than a trade moving against you and sitting at your computer looking at a "Red" field loss of three or four figures before the horses have come out of the traps....and to make matters worse the horse you were trading will then inevitably hose up...it's the hardest game in town,I always laugh when I watch the You tube clips they never show a losing trade but they have plenty for sure.
 

footysystems

Gelding
nicksar nicksar I totally agree but the like of Peter Webb and Badger make a living from I not sure how beyond me how they do ? Like them to come on here and give us a glue. But they do sell things I am sure it the selling that keeps them going but maybe wrong ?
 
nicksar nicksar I totally agree but the like of Peter Webb and Badger make a living from I not sure how beyond me how they do ? Like them to come on here and give us a glue. But they do sell things I am sure it the selling that keeps them going but maybe wrong ?
I recall years ago another "Trader" challenging The Badger to a £100 profit on a race (pre race profit) trade off....the Badger declined the offer,says it all really.Caan Berry also owns a "matched" betting platform nowadays as well.
 
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