• Hi Guest, The forum will be moving hosts on 26 July and as such will be closed from Midday until the move has completed.
    As we will be with new hosts it may take a while before DNS get updated so it could take while before you can get back on the forum.
    I think it will take at least 4 hours but could easily be 48!
    Ark Royal
  • There seems to be a problem with some alerts not being emailed to members. I have told the hosts and they are investigating.
  • Sorry for the ongoing issues that you may have been experiencing whilst using the forum lately

    It really is frustrating when the forum slows down or Server Error 500 pops up.

    Apparently the hosts acknowledge there is a problem.
    Thank you for using our services and sorry for the experienced delay!
    Unfortunately, these errors are due to a higher server load. Our senior department knows about the issue and they are working towards a permanent resolution of the issue, however, I'd advise you to consider using our new cPanel cloud solutions: https://www.tsohost.com/web-hosting


    I will have to investigate what the differences are with what We have know compared to the alternative service they want us to migrate to.
    Keep safe.
    AR

How to Make Horse Racing More Popular or Just Better for you

markfinn

Sire
That's the going rate markfinn markfinn

It costs five times the entrance fee to get in regardless where your joint is. Pick 67 at Sedgefield was sold for £20 last year but the poor guy was so far away from the action it was pointless him even going. He still paid the same amount as the guy on Pick 1 to get in. He still had to pay his workman and clerk £120 each for the days work. So basically for the privelege of betting at the worst pick at Sedgefield it was costing him more in expenses than he was taking in bets.

Pick 54 in Tatts at the Cheltenham Festival went for £2500 and Pick 110 at Aintree GN meeting in Tatts went for 4k. Sam Black who bets on the rails on the all weather at Newcastle is selling his joints. Just no money in it.
There are loads of problems and negatives to be overcome , but ignoring or simply highlighting them in isolation will not help them , they need to be proactive and act together if necessary to blanket boycott these underperforming courses. But get the product right and the punters will attend - the guys who want to bet in thousands will be accommodated if the turnover allows
 

mick

Sire
Mostly from connections Mick and well informed regulars.
If the latter includes fully understanding the track as opposed to info then i find it interesting. I have often wondered if as punters we focused all of our effort on just one course this might eventually prove a more profitable way of betting. ? Which one and why i cannot answer.

A few years back i conducted a long term audit of my own bets and was surprised to discover that York had proved my most profitable venue and tbh i had - have no idea why. The only conclusion i drew was despite it being a flat - galloping - fair track i have long felt that its still a marmite type track and previous course form (which i often utilized) is a positive. ?
 

Nellsman

Colt
Hi mick mick,
I think that you may be right about York. I have noted in the past that some horse seem to perform better there and it's worth noting horses that have ran there with previous good form. Two that spring to mind are Firmament and Pivoine.
 
D

Deleted member 4117

Guest
Hi mick mick,
I think that you may be right about York. I have noted in the past that some horse seem to perform better there and it's worth noting horses that have ran there with previous good form. Two that spring to mind are Firmament and Pivoine.
On the face of it across all races at York the opposite is true, although it's not that much of a negative:


1579189707382.png
 

pawras

Colt
Can bookies operating a pitch only show prices for that meeting or can they show prices for any meeting?
If they can then why not redesign a pitch to show prices for the course meeting facing forward as now but also other boards and some at 90 degrees each side showing prices for races at other meetings that day?
If they do that at competitve prices it might get more people betting significant amounts spread across different meetings away from their laptops & on course instead.
 

markfinn

Sire
Can bookies operating a pitch only show prices for that meeting or can they show prices for any meeting?
If they can then why not redesign a pitch to show prices for the course meeting facing forward as now but also other boards and some at 90 degrees each side showing prices for races at other meetings that day?
If they do that at competitve prices it might get more people betting significant amounts spread across different meetings away from their laptops & on course instead.
some do take of course bets
 

pawras

Colt
Well if they can they need to explore this more and put some time, effort & money into a pitch stand that attracts punters as a stand out betting point that they can bet on other races like a betting shop. But obviously with competitive prices to attract those who otherwise are largely just backing online.

I go on course often enough but my real money goes online. Why would I take say 6/4 off them when I can 11/4 online via my phone??
 

markfinn

Sire
Well if they can they need to explore this more and put some time, effort & money into a pitch stand that attracts punters as a stand out betting point that they can bet on other races like a betting shop. But obviously with competitive prices to attract those who otherwise are largely just backing online.

I go on course often enough but my real money goes online. Why would I take say 6/4 off them when I can 11/4 online via my phone??
I know what you mean but thats a Big difference - are you qouting an actual event - was their liquidity sufficient reasonable - Thats possibly where on course bookies could fight back , matching liability to individual stakes - not sure if that could be made to work - but limiting it to the last 5 mins they are hardly going to able to take enough small bets to bust the hod. I know from my own experience when on the course the odds do look skinny. I dont know if thats perception risking a decent bet from your pocket in flesh at 6/4 rather than sat at home never actually handling the cash.
 

markfinn

Sire
pawras pawras you can always ask for better odds and as long as its reasonable generally sorted - but they are not going to go to extremes

 

pawras

Colt
I know what you mean but thats a Big difference - are you qouting an actual event - was their liquidity sufficient reasonable - Thats possibly where on course bookies could fight back , matching liability to individual stakes - not sure if that could be made to work - but limiting it to the last 5 mins they are hardly going to able to take enough small bets to bust the hod. I know from my own experience when on the course the odds do look skinny. I dont know if thats perception risking a decent bet from your pocket in flesh at 6/4 rather than sat at home never actually handling the cash.
I'm not thinking of particular instance it's more just an anecdotal example of how when on course I can often get better prices online, the same as when I happen to gib out of work to watch a race at the bookies down the road.
No one who knows what they're about is going to put anything but play money on at a shorter price on course when they can take a better price on their phone whilst stood in front of the pitch even.
Hence on course bookies need to innovate and be more competitive, maybe even try being actual bookies rather than just blindly following the exchange and staying a fraction under it on every runner, or the herd will just continue to thin out.

Psychologically to be me it feels like more when dealing with actual notes rather numbers on a screen, hhmm dunno if I'd fancy how a really bad day would feel with actual notes.
 
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pawras

Colt
Funnily enough on itv racing right now the guy is interviewing a bookie and talking about attracting more backers and how if he wants he can take better terms on his phone etc. Then in the studio how newer bookies on course are just playing to a small margin with the exchange rather than actually having an opinion like they used to.
 
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markfinn

Sire
Funnily enough on itv racing right now the guy is interviewing a bookie and talking about attracting more backers and how if he wants he can take better terms on his phone etc. Then in the studio how newer bookies on course are just playing to a small margin with the exchange rather than actually having an opinion like they used.
Its all about perception and temptation - If we set out with a plan and the determination to stick to it - it helps - often go with only one race in mind back it and watch the rest - hang around the parade ring - its amazing sometimes what you can pick up from casual conversations or observations. Not spying just joining in.
 

Samacas

Mare
I would like to see:

1. Earplugs declared and regulated in the same way as all other headgear.
2. If bookies need to restrict or close accounts do it to people for losing too much, not for winning too much

Sadly I don’t believe it is possible to make racing more popular.
The gambling youth of today want instant results such as slots, scratchcards, online bingo apps and lotteries etc. Racing is too much work.
 
There's a lot racing could do for itself and its fans if it wasn't in the ludicrous position of having to leak large amounts of cash to private companies. Media rights money stays with the tracks. None of it goes to 'racing' as a broad sport. This seems due to Peter Savill - when the BHB was in charge in the 90s - losing a court case over data rights. Racing should do all it can to have that decision reviewed, imo. The court essentially gave commercial ownership of fixtures to tracks rather than to the ruling body. Yet the Premier League controls its media rights. Fixtures do not belong to the individual clubs. If there is a difference in some legal fashion between the BHA and the Premier League, I'd like someone to point it out.

Also, companies like Arena (ARC) and JCR (Jockey Club) own 31 racecourses between them - more than 50% of the UK's tracks. Many other tracks are owned by small companies. What they all have in common is they do not disclose shareholder earnings from media rights payments. Neither do they say what percentage of rights cash goes into prize money or improvements for racegoers. Whoever the new CEO is at the BHA, he or she ought to make overturning that 25-year-old court decision a priority above all else.

On a separate subject, owners complain about many things; why have they never complained about paying entry fees for horses? It's always surprised me that the horse - the very core of the sport (an industry stats expert puts annual betting turnover on UK horseracing, including online, above £10bn) must have a payment made to be entered in a race for everyone else to profit from. Can you imagine other entertainers having to do the same? If Tom Jones does a post racing gig at York, do you think he has to pay an entry fee to get on the stage? It's ridiculous.
 

mick

Sire
Steeplechasing Steeplechasing i was interested in your £10 billion annual T/o fig because this being so you would think that the larger firms who will be enjoying the Lions share of this would have some leeway to still accommodate current winning customers to reasonable stakes. !
 
We wish! They're all drunk with greed. Despite similar press stories to those of the £100 stake FOBT era - suicides, losing punters being awarded VIP status, personal managers and 'gifts' (the equivalent of grooming and stalking) - they cannot rein themselves in because they fear losing their place at the trough. The government is already planning action against them and, if the Gambling Commission finally grows some balls, maybe they can batter some sense into these big companies and stop them from eating themselves. But I doubt it.
 

mlmrob

Sire
Fiver bookmakers at Alnwick last Saturday and a good crowd

1580975980243.png

At Sedgefield on Tuesday there were 18 bookmakers and probably half the amount of people that were at Alnwick.

I go racing quite a bit in the North and midweeks are becoming farsical with the amount of bookmakers to punter.
 
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